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Old 05-04-2004, 05:33 AM   #1
Findegil
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The history of the Mirkwood-Elves can be found in Unfinished Tales. I will provide a short summary:
Thranduil was the son of Oropher. Oropher was a Sindarin Elf of Doraith that refused to life together with the Noldor when the Elves of Doriath fled to the mouth of Sirion and later to Lindon. He wandered east and settled in the vale of Anduin in the woods around Amon Lac (later Dol Guldur). Since the Sindar had more knowledge the Nandor and Avari they found in the woods they established them self as leaders and Oropher founded a kingdom of the Wood-Elves in southern Mirkwood. In the course of the Second Age Galadriel for the first time lifed in Lórien and influenced the Wood-Elves of that realm. Oropher still didn't liked the Noldor and moved his kingdom to the Woods around the Mountians of Mirkwood to free himself and his people from Galadriels influence.
In the War of the Last Alliance Oropher led his people to the Battle at Dagorlad, but he did not acept the command of Gil-Galad. Thus he and 2/3 of his warrior were killed in an attack lunched to early. Thranduil who had taken part in the battle survived and after the war led the remants of the people bake to mirkwood. When in the third age Dol Guldur becam a thread he removed his realm further north. To the place we know from The Hobbit.
Since Thranduil's palace was in very many aspects similar to Menegroth we can assume that he was already born in Doriath and had seen the fortress of Thingol with his own eyes.

I hope that helps clearing the things a bit.
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Old 05-04-2004, 02:06 PM   #2
Lalwendë
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It always struck me that the Hobbits of The Shire and Men of Bree actually stand out as having surnames, instead of being generally referred to as 'son of ....'. I may be mistaken but it doesn't seem that any of the other societies in Middle Earth use surnames. The only odd cases I can think of are names such as 'Gandalf Stormcrow' - these are nicknames, but nicknames are one of the common roots of surnames.

Perhaps it ought to be on a new thread, but I often wonder if this makes The Shire the most 'advanced' of the various societies. Surnames generally come into use when trade and government have grown so much that it would be impossible to govern without being able to distinguish individuals.

Anyway, I generally think that the use of names is a cultural matter in middle Earth. The elves don't seem to use anything other than first names, which might indicate a smaller, more village-like society, wheareas men use 'son of...', which is more feudal.
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Old 05-04-2004, 02:14 PM   #3
symestreem
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Well, the elves were more reclusive, and most of them knew each other, having had ample time to meet before. So they didn't really need surnames. It is interesting that the elves, who along with men placed the most emphasis on descendants and ancestry, did NOT use a patronymic (?) or, "son of", while men DID. I think the hobbits having surnames may have been a device of Tolkien's introduced when he was writing 'The Hobbit', to be familiar to children/give the story an English feel. But the elves could most definitely NOT feel English, and the men had to feel... pre-English (hence the patronymics). So you could say that the hobbits correspond to the latest time frame of our world, but the circumstances in Middle-earth are different, and this does not necessarily indicate advancement. Remember, the later the age, the greater the technology, and Tolkien seemed to dislike industrialization (yes,t hat's stretching it a bit). Also, it may be because there were so many hobbits, and they had similar first names, so calling a hobbit (first name) son/daughter of (first name) would have been confusing.
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Old 05-04-2004, 03:33 PM   #4
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Look! That helped I never knew the elves of Mirkwood rebelled. Just one more thing about the mirkwood elves.(sorry) Why didn't they have a city? Is it because they just have a castle? All the other societies have cities. Calas Galadhon, Hobbiton, Minas Tirith, Dale. Khazad-Dum (altough I don't really know if this is a city). Why was this?

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Old 05-04-2004, 09:54 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by symestreem
Also, it may be because there were so many hobbits, and they had similar first names, so calling a hobbit (first name) son/daughter of (first name) would have been confusing
So was it for a few of the Elves. Think about Glorfindel of Gondolin and Glorfindel of Rivendell. Although there is a possibility that they are one and the same...
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Old 05-05-2004, 01:34 AM   #6
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They are definitely the same.
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Old 05-05-2004, 12:56 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Lhunardawen
So was it for a few of the Elves. Think about Glorfindel of Gondolin and Glorfindel of Rivendell. Although there is a possibility that they are one and the same...
Well, you just solved the matter there. Even if they were different, you name one Glorfindel of Rivendell and the other of Gondolin. So that way you know the difference. So they just say Legolas of the woodland realm in case there is another legolas. (doubt it, but still)

So there was no realy city in Mirkwood, just a mighty fortress. Or was it something like Doriath?

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Old 05-05-2004, 02:36 PM   #8
symestreem
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Well, as Findegil said, the halls of Thranduil were similar to those of Menegroth.
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Old 05-05-2004, 04:01 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Potatothan
Look! That helped I never knew the elves of Mirkwood rebelled. Just one more thing about the mirkwood elves.(sorry) Why didn't they have a city? Is it because they just have a castle? All the other societies have cities. Calas Galadhon, Hobbiton, Minas Tirith, Dale. Khazad-Dum (altough I don't really know if this is a city). Why was this?
Well, even if there were a city in Mirkwood, I would still live in the fortress. Would you live in an open city when lots of spiders and other evil were creeping around right outside? Almost all of Mirkwood was under the evil influence of Dol Guldur, exept for the small part Thranduil's people held. A fortress was probably the safest place to be in.
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Old 05-05-2004, 04:38 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorongil
Well, even if there were a city in Mirkwood, I would still live in the fortress. Would you live in an open city when lots of spiders and other evil were creeping around right outside? Almost all of Mirkwood was under the evil influence of Dol Guldur, exept for the small part Thranduil's people held. A fortress was probably the safest place to be in.
There probably were some hermituous elves who preferred to live outside the walls, and in the region of the forest held by Thranduil's people, they could have done it safely.
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