The Warg and Warg Rider Appreciation Thread - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 05-05-2004, 02:56 PM

Good reply Samwise. It is indeed true that, though tendencies of Men and Wargs can be similar, the proportion of Men and Wargs who act upon evil inclinations is hugely different.

Perhaps Wargs are far more fairly compared with the Valar?

Amariden Ravenhill · 05-05-2004, 05:06 PM

A truely interesting veiw, Eomer of the Rohirrim. I apologize to you all for seeming to have disappeared, but I was ill with the flu and could not answer to the summons that cry out for retribution on behalf of all Warg-kind. While I was confined to my hobbit-hole as a result of my flu, I was thus inspired to composed a poem in honor of Dirdun.

The Lament of Dirdun

Hail Dirdun,
Mighty among Wargs
Troll-hewer and
Nobelest of Nobles
He with his kin
the West Dirdunings,
Wandered off afar
In lands unknown
Aided by Elves
Fairest of friends
There at Weathertop
Hewed by Easterlings
Thus Dirdun was slain by evil hands
There died many a warg
Innoccent and pure
Broken by the sword
Rangers of the Dunedain
Mourned the loss
of what passed

SamwiseGamgee · 05-06-2004, 06:49 AM

Nice prose, Ravenhill. Tell me, which part of the Shire do you hail from? I have a tendency to roam, but maybe I know your hobbit hole. Perhaps I could pop in for a cup of tea or see to your garden?
I think that to draw a link between the Valar and wargs is perhaps tenuous, but not without merit, Eomer. Certainly I think we must realise that wargs are not as powerful as the Valar. If they were would they submit themselves at all? However, as you point out the wargs are mighty as compared to their peers, and a few of them have chosen to tread the path of darkness.
I feel that wargs are probably as powerful or maybe slightly less so than the Maiar. I do not think a single warg could challenge Sauron, but I think an army of wargs marching upon Barad-Dur would surely put the fear into the heart of the Red Eye. A fair fight, if we choose to define it in such terms, would probably be a warg and a balrog.
One interesting question which arises regarding wargs is that Bombadil like enigma of why they did not take a more active role in the War of the Ring?
I'd just like to point out now that all my opinions are rebuttable, and I look forward to hearing counter arguments or comments.

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 05-06-2004, 08:41 AM

Before we answer the question "Why did the (good) Wargs not take a more active role in the War of the Ring" we must first ask an estimate of how many Wargs were alive in Middle-earth at the time.

As far as I can tell there were not very many. It is also unclear where they resided. I don't think that Wargs lived in large groups so it is my guess that there were a considerable, if scattered number of Wargs all over Middle-earth.

Perhaps they didn't consider the War to affect them too much?

SamwiseGamgee · 05-07-2004, 09:41 AM

I find it unlikely that they didn't live in groups, Eomer. The warg, after all, is a pack animal- highly sociable and intelligent. While the groups may not have been the huge collections that were once known in ME, I feel the groups would have been sizeable, perhaps about 12 adults.
I think it unlikely that wargs felt the War to be unimportant or not affecting them. The warg, after all, has the tremendous gift of foresight, and wargs are counted amongst the wise. However, the same could be said of Tom Bombadil or the eagles, I guess.
Perhaps it is fair to say that wargs were quite simply afraid of the consequences of the War, and thus decided to lie low. It may be slightly ignoble, but it seems reasonable.

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 05-07-2004, 01:10 PM

I only said that I thought they wouldn't live in large groups. Rather small well-organised groups.

Perhaps Wargs were involved in furious fighting away from the north-west of Middle-earth, and thus the stories are not told in The Lord Of The Rings. A shame I think. We could probably make some tales of the unsung heroes of the War of the Ring.

Pray tell readers, does anyone know how the Warg Rider met his doom? That is a tale I would love to hear. I wonder if he was present during the War of the Ring.

SamwiseGamgee · 05-11-2004, 09:08 AM

That's a question which has puzzled many a greater mind than mine. Few know, and they are reluctant to tell. It is with a great price that the true tale of the Warg Rider is learned, and I for my part have lost much.
The story of the Warg Rider's demise shall be told in this thread soon, but not yet. I shall go back and refresh my mind- though it shan't take much, the imagery is burned into my sub-concious- of the exact facts.
On an aside, Eomer, you may be interested that your foresight is as clear as ever as regards the maiden-folk. You know of what I speak.

05-05-2004, 02:56 PM	#1
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	Good reply Samwise. It is indeed true that, though tendencies of Men and Wargs can be similar, the proportion of Men and Wargs who act upon evil inclinations is hugely different. Perhaps Wargs are far more fairly compared with the Valar? __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

05-05-2004, 05:06 PM	#2
Amariden Ravenhill Wight Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: In Mordor where the Shadows lie Posts: 113	A truely interesting veiw, Eomer of the Rohirrim. I apologize to you all for seeming to have disappeared, but I was ill with the flu and could not answer to the summons that cry out for retribution on behalf of all Warg-kind. While I was confined to my hobbit-hole as a result of my flu, I was thus inspired to composed a poem in honor of Dirdun. The Lament of Dirdun Hail Dirdun, Mighty among Wargs Troll-hewer and Nobelest of Nobles He with his kin the West Dirdunings, Wandered off afar In lands unknown Aided by Elves Fairest of friends There at Weathertop Hewed by Easterlings Thus Dirdun was slain by evil hands There died many a warg Innoccent and pure Broken by the sword Rangers of the Dunedain Mourned the loss of what passed __________________ Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.= I have a catapult. Give me all the money, or I will fling an enormous rock at your head Utúlie'n aurë! Aiya Eldalië ar Atanatári, utúlie'n aurë!

05-06-2004, 06:49 AM	#3
SamwiseGamgee Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: In the warm bosom of a Warg Posts: 378	Nice prose, Ravenhill. Tell me, which part of the Shire do you hail from? I have a tendency to roam, but maybe I know your hobbit hole. Perhaps I could pop in for a cup of tea or see to your garden? I think that to draw a link between the Valar and wargs is perhaps tenuous, but not without merit, Eomer. Certainly I think we must realise that wargs are not as powerful as the Valar. If they were would they submit themselves at all? However, as you point out the wargs are mighty as compared to their peers, and a few of them have chosen to tread the path of darkness. I feel that wargs are probably as powerful or maybe slightly less so than the Maiar. I do not think a single warg could challenge Sauron, but I think an army of wargs marching upon Barad-Dur would surely put the fear into the heart of the Red Eye. A fair fight, if we choose to define it in such terms, would probably be a warg and a balrog. One interesting question which arises regarding wargs is that Bombadil like enigma of why they did not take a more active role in the War of the Ring? I'd just like to point out now that all my opinions are rebuttable, and I look forward to hearing counter arguments or comments. __________________ -- Well, I'm back.

05-06-2004, 08:41 AM	#4
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	Before we answer the question "Why did the (good) Wargs not take a more active role in the War of the Ring" we must first ask an estimate of how many Wargs were alive in Middle-earth at the time. As far as I can tell there were not very many. It is also unclear where they resided. I don't think that Wargs lived in large groups so it is my guess that there were a considerable, if scattered number of Wargs all over Middle-earth. Perhaps they didn't consider the War to affect them too much? __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

05-07-2004, 09:41 AM	#5
SamwiseGamgee Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: In the warm bosom of a Warg Posts: 378	I find it unlikely that they didn't live in groups, Eomer. The warg, after all, is a pack animal- highly sociable and intelligent. While the groups may not have been the huge collections that were once known in ME, I feel the groups would have been sizeable, perhaps about 12 adults. I think it unlikely that wargs felt the War to be unimportant or not affecting them. The warg, after all, has the tremendous gift of foresight, and wargs are counted amongst the wise. However, the same could be said of Tom Bombadil or the eagles, I guess. Perhaps it is fair to say that wargs were quite simply afraid of the consequences of the War, and thus decided to lie low. It may be slightly ignoble, but it seems reasonable. __________________ -- Well, I'm back.

05-07-2004, 01:10 PM	#6
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	I only said that I thought they wouldn't live in large groups. Rather small well-organised groups. Perhaps Wargs were involved in furious fighting away from the north-west of Middle-earth, and thus the stories are not told in The Lord Of The Rings. A shame I think. We could probably make some tales of the unsung heroes of the War of the Ring. Pray tell readers, does anyone know how the Warg Rider met his doom? That is a tale I would love to hear. I wonder if he was present during the War of the Ring. __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

05-11-2004, 09:08 AM	#7
SamwiseGamgee Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: In the warm bosom of a Warg Posts: 378	That's a question which has puzzled many a greater mind than mine. Few know, and they are reluctant to tell. It is with a great price that the true tale of the Warg Rider is learned, and I for my part have lost much. The story of the Warg Rider's demise shall be told in this thread soon, but not yet. I shall go back and refresh my mind- though it shan't take much, the imagery is burned into my sub-concious- of the exact facts. On an aside, Eomer, you may be interested that your foresight is as clear as ever as regards the maiden-folk. You know of what I speak. __________________ -- Well, I'm back.