Which Elf had it hardest? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Gorwingel · 05-08-2004, 12:34 AM

I have never thought of Elrond having such a terrible life. But, yes, that is all quite true. By the end he was basically alone, except for (I would think) the sons. But were always off in Middle-earth traveling around assisting with the conflicts surrounding the Ring. So he must have not seen them that much.

Turin though, he did not have it good. It was nice that he slayed the dragon, but having the Curse of Morgoth on him (and what happened to him after) would never have been a good thing.

But then I also think that Galadriel had quite a hard time just because of everything she had seen and been through during her very, very, very long life. Basically for her everything had gone downhill from the first time she awoke, and then of course she also shared the sorrow of being a ringbearer. And all of that can never be good.

I don't think though that Luthien exactly had the most sorrowfilled life. She got what she wanted, and had the most joyful of joys because of it. Though she did have to go through a lot to get there, and of course lose her immortality because of it.

I guess we can assume from all of this that it was pretty hard being an elf in Middle-earth

Gothmog · 05-08-2004, 06:23 AM

How about Gwindor? He started off as a great elven-lord, but then his brother Gelmir was caught by Morgoth and killed in front of Gwindor's eyes (just before Nirnaeth Arnoediad). Then he charged forward, the troops followed him and that unprepared attack was one of the things that led to the disaster in the battle.

He was than imprisoned and turned into a slave in Angband. He managed to escape but was now broken and completely changed, people didn't recognize him anymore. He met Turin and they went back to Nargothrond, where Finduilas, Orodreth's daughter fell in love with Turin instead of Gwindor (Finduilas and Gwindor were in love before Nirn. Arn.). The elves of Narg. listen more and more to Turin and less and less to Gwindor, who finally died at the battle of Tumladen, a battle which Turin more or less was responsible for.

From a mighty warrior and lord to a broken ex-slave who lost his love and many friends, much because of Turin. (of course it wasn't Turins intention, but that curse of his...it was bad

)

Hot, crispy nice hobbit · 05-08-2004, 08:30 AM

Leave it to me to throw a spanner in!

If Luthien should be considered as having it hard, why not Arwen? (Note: I am extremely disgusted with PJ's version of Arwen, but I had no problem with the original Arwen as written)

Compare: Luthien escaped from a good many trials, but she was always content. She escaped from her father to party with Beren, had a good deal of fun with ol' Morgy and his guard dog, throw one over a couple of drunken sons of Feanor. But so what? She had the only thing that mattered to her, and she kept it even after death!

Arwen, on the other, is kept safe in her house under a watchful father. I don't suppose she is ever allowed out of sight either. The man that she love is send of to fight a war, with no more than a band of ragtag outlaws. To do Elrond credit, he send his own sons along, but Arwen is only allowed to stay at home to knit banners... No, she must have worried her head off. I am guessing that Elrond kept her under lock and chain to prevent history from repeating...

Knight of Gondor · 05-08-2004, 04:50 PM

It always seemed to me that both Elven Maidens were content to wait for their future husbands. No wait, I take it back. Arwen was rather content, poor Luthien had to go rescue her man. And Luthien just had a little life afterwards, diminishing and dancin'. Arwen got a kingdom. Of course, we're not told what sadness there was at Luthien's end, whereas we are told about Arwen.

Elianna · 05-09-2004, 03:53 PM

And interesting thought Hot, Crispy Hobbit.

(I just finished the Tale of Aragorn and Arwen, so it's fresh on my mind.) Aragorn, at their first meeting, jokingly asks if Elrond has kept Arwen locked in his horde. I suppose it might have seemed like that to Arwen, that she was inprisioned in the Hírilorn, but with no esape this time.

Olorin_TLA · 05-09-2004, 04:11 PM

Hmm, Gwindor may have my vote now :'( He's kind of the Elven equivalent of *I forget the name...the lame woodman who loves Nienor* :'(

I think any Elf who got close to a mortal would be sad though...especially those who knew many...imagine meeting a race. They only live for 1 year. So you get close tothem. They die, You get close to their kids. They die. And this goes on for generations, so by the time you, the human, die,let's say at 80, you will have experienced the deaths of countless close friends.

:'(

mark12_30 · 05-11-2004, 06:24 AM

I tend to feel the most sorry for the elves who end up imprisoned by their own brokenness and despair... forever.

Maglor, singing on the seashore; Daeron, far to the east, sitting by dark waters lamenting his loss of Luthien.

Neither of them were angels and they had plenty to regret. Living with the guilt must make it that much worse.

05-08-2004, 12:34 AM	#1
Gorwingel Beholder of the Mists Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Somewhere in the Northwest... for now Posts: 1,419	I have never thought of Elrond having such a terrible life. But, yes, that is all quite true. By the end he was basically alone, except for (I would think) the sons. But were always off in Middle-earth traveling around assisting with the conflicts surrounding the Ring. So he must have not seen them that much. Turin though, he did not have it good. It was nice that he slayed the dragon, but having the Curse of Morgoth on him (and what happened to him after) would never have been a good thing. But then I also think that Galadriel had quite a hard time just because of everything she had seen and been through during her very, very, very long life. Basically for her everything had gone downhill from the first time she awoke, and then of course she also shared the sorrow of being a ringbearer. And all of that can never be good. I don't think though that Luthien exactly had the most sorrowfilled life. She got what she wanted, and had the most joyful of joys because of it. Though she did have to go through a lot to get there, and of course lose her immortality because of it. I guess we can assume from all of this that it was pretty hard being an elf in Middle-earth __________________ Wanted - Wonderfully witty quote that consists of pure brilliance

05-08-2004, 06:23 AM	#2
Gothmog Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Where I lay my head is home Posts: 421	How about Gwindor? He started off as a great elven-lord, but then his brother Gelmir was caught by Morgoth and killed in front of Gwindor's eyes (just before Nirnaeth Arnoediad). Then he charged forward, the troops followed him and that unprepared attack was one of the things that led to the disaster in the battle. He was than imprisoned and turned into a slave in Angband. He managed to escape but was now broken and completely changed, people didn't recognize him anymore. He met Turin and they went back to Nargothrond, where Finduilas, Orodreth's daughter fell in love with Turin instead of Gwindor (Finduilas and Gwindor were in love before Nirn. Arn.). The elves of Narg. listen more and more to Turin and less and less to Gwindor, who finally died at the battle of Tumladen, a battle which Turin more or less was responsible for. From a mighty warrior and lord to a broken ex-slave who lost his love and many friends, much because of Turin. (of course it wasn't Turins intention, but that curse of his...it was bad ) __________________ Three switched witches watch three Swatch watch switches. Which switched witch watch which Swatch watch switch? He who breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom ~Lurker...

05-08-2004, 08:30 AM	#3
Hot, crispy nice hobbit Wight Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Troll's larder Posts: 195	Leave it to me to throw a spanner in! If Luthien should be considered as having it hard, why not Arwen? (Note: I am extremely disgusted with PJ's version of Arwen, but I had no problem with the original Arwen as written) Compare: Luthien escaped from a good many trials, but she was always content. She escaped from her father to party with Beren, had a good deal of fun with ol' Morgy and his guard dog, throw one over a couple of drunken sons of Feanor. But so what? She had the only thing that mattered to her, and she kept it even after death! Arwen, on the other, is kept safe in her house under a watchful father. I don't suppose she is ever allowed out of sight either. The man that she love is send of to fight a war, with no more than a band of ragtag outlaws. To do Elrond credit, he send his own sons along, but Arwen is only allowed to stay at home to knit banners... No, she must have worried her head off. I am guessing that Elrond kept her under lock and chain to prevent history from repeating... __________________ 'He wouldn't make above a mouthful,' said William, who had already had a fine supper, 'not when he was skinned and boned.'

05-08-2004, 04:50 PM	#4
Knight of Gondor Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 744	It always seemed to me that both Elven Maidens were content to wait for their future husbands. No wait, I take it back. Arwen was rather content, poor Luthien had to go rescue her man. And Luthien just had a little life afterwards, diminishing and dancin'. Arwen got a kingdom. Of course, we're not told what sadness there was at Luthien's end, whereas we are told about Arwen. __________________ Eagerly awaiting the REAL Return of the King - Jesus Christ! Revelation 19:11-16

05-09-2004, 03:53 PM	#5
Elianna Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Ad finem itineris Posts: 384	And interesting thought Hot, Crispy Hobbit. (I just finished the Tale of Aragorn and Arwen, so it's fresh on my mind.) Aragorn, at their first meeting, jokingly asks if Elrond has kept Arwen locked in his horde. I suppose it might have seemed like that to Arwen, that she was inprisioned in the Hírilorn, but with no esape this time. __________________ Enyale cuilenya, ú-enyale mandenya.

05-09-2004, 04:11 PM	#6
Olorin_TLA Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Gardens of Lórien, Valinor. Posts: 420	Hmm, Gwindor may have my vote now :'( He's kind of the Elven equivalent of I forget the name...the lame woodman who loves Nienor :'( I think any Elf who got close to a mortal would be sad though...especially those who knew many...imagine meeting a race. They only live for 1 year. So you get close tothem. They die, You get close to their kids. They die. And this goes on for generations, so by the time you, the human, die,let's say at 80, you will have experienced the deaths of countless close friends. :'( __________________ "For I am Olórin! And Olórin means me!" ELENDIL! - Join "Forth Tolkiengas!"

05-11-2004, 06:24 AM	#7
mark12_30 Stormdancer of Doom Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars Posts: 4,349	those sorry minstrels I tend to feel the most sorry for the elves who end up imprisoned by their own brokenness and despair... forever. Maglor, singing on the seashore; Daeron, far to the east, sitting by dark waters lamenting his loss of Luthien. Neither of them were angels and they had plenty to regret. Living with the guilt must make it that much worse. __________________ ...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve.