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Old 05-10-2004, 12:22 AM   #1
HerenIstarion
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Old 05-10-2004, 02:42 PM   #2
symestreem
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Well, if evil is part of Arda Marred, then it stands to reason that in Arda Unmarred, there will not be evil. But if evil is NOT part of Arda Marred, but instead an outside force, then there will be problems. Actually, there are two potential problems with Arda Unmarred:

A) Evil is a force inherent to Arda and/or its inhabitants and will always be there. If Arda really was the product of the Music of the Ainu, then it was Marred at the moment of its creation and has always had evil in it. Can there ever be an Arda Unmarred if it was evil at the moment of its birth?

B) Something does not have to be born evil to become evil. Even Melkor was not evil to begin with, but greedy, stubborn and vain. To prevent any new evil from occurring, not only would evil have to be removed, but also the inherent potential of anyone to become evil. Is this possible, if evil was a part of Arda to begin with? Or, because the Children come from Eru, is their fundamental nature to not be evil, but the work of Melkor causes them to become so?

B2) Non-evil can also cause strife. Several of Shakespeare's plays featured potentially harmful situations caused entirely through misunderstanding. For all potential conflict to be removed, you would also have to remove things like stupidity. If these things are removed in Arda Unmarred, does that mean that as a part of Arda Marred, they came from Melkor?
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Old 05-11-2004, 07:21 PM   #3
The Saucepan Man
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To prevent any new evil from occurring, not only would evil have to be removed, but also the inherent potential of anyone to become evil.
Which, as I see it, would involve Eru removing His Children's free will. Which He would surely never do since, well, what would then be the point of their existence? So, while Arda may have been Unmarred, wasn't there still the potential for one of His Children to choose to rebel against Him and go about Marring it all up again, just like Melkor did all those years ago?
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Old 05-12-2004, 12:40 AM   #4
Lhunardawen
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A) Evil is a force inherent to Arda and/or its inhabitants and will always be there. If Arda really was the product of the Music of the Ainu, then it was Marred at the moment of its creation and has always had evil in it. Can there ever be an Arda Unmarred if it was evil at the moment of its birth?
symestreem, I doubt that Arda was evil in its birth, since it was only in the middle of the First Theme of the Ainulindalė when Melkor wove his own designs into the song.

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But now Iluvatar sat and hearkened, and for a great while it seemed good to him, for in the music there were no flaws.
So evil was not inherent to Arda.

I think that the Unmarring of Arda will require the ultimate destruction of Melkor and his works, not necessarily stripping the Children of Iluvatar of their free will.
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