Writers out there - what about genders?

[Child of the 7th Age]

OK, I am going to throw a ringer in the works here by disagreeing with everyone.

The enchanting thing with fantasy is that you are the creator of a world, and you are also the one who sets the rules for that world. Why can't you have a world, for example, where women wield power and men occupy a subsidiary role? Or perhaps a world of Skinchangers where both men and women can morph into the form of dangerous beasts, and are therefore essentially equal?

Even in Middle-earth there is room for variety. It is true that Tolkien utilized women sparingly in fighting roles. But I think it may be short sighted to divide the world into those who fight and those who stay home, with nothing in between. If Gandalf had been looking for someone with brute force who was a miraculous fighter, he would never have picked Bilbo. In such a scheme, Hobbits would be useless! But he thought more creatively, and came up with a character who would have certain physical and cultural limitations placed on him.

When you stop and think about it, this isn't too different from the type of limitations that would be placed on a "typical" woman. Morever, it's precisely because of those limitations that many of us can identify with Hobbits. If I think of myself trying to emulate Arwen or Aragorn in real life, I practically roll over laughing. A typical hero or heroine, I am not! But a Hobbit who lives in a Burrow, runs around cooking meals, and fussing at his children a la Samwise....that I can understand .

Even if you create a 'conventional" woman character, there are many roles that he or she could take on: roles that require dexterity or the ability to conceal oneself; a quick thinker who can get people out of a jam, a mother protecting her young children, a woman gifted in music or a craft, or, of course, the wise woman who has deep knowledge of lore. The list is endless.

I enjoy depicting both male and female characters. But, to be truthful, I think I have more insight as to how a woman thinks and acts. I do like to "break" other stereotypes in writing, such as women who are older and/or unmarried, or pehaps with physical limitations, or extraordinary gifts of one type or another but not necessarily the gift of hack and whack! So perhaps, there is more room for female diversity within Middle-earth than first comes to the eye.

[Amanaduial the archer]

Funny that this should be brought up - I was thinking about it the other day whilst devising a character for an RPG. (I shall stick solely in RPG terms for now).

I don't really consider myself to prefer either gender - I'm fairly relaxed to either one. But recently, I've ended up veering to male characters, pretty much completely! The last female I played was in 'Escape from Nurn' in the Shire, and much have been...well, it actually ended a good few months ago, anyway. But all the characters I'm playing at the moment and for the past few games have all been male.

Possibly this is because I originally ended up with a bit of a stigma with one of the moderators (you know who you are!) that I always played female elves or people with magical powers I know, I know... so my first non-female character was somewhat experimental, after playing all my first games with female characters, and was the Easterling character Kane in 'Ride To The Dark Side'. (I don't include the hobbit character I played - he was a rather mischievous child and almost genderless!)

Incidentally, I found he was quite marvellous to play! Things which were much trickier to execute as a female characters were made simpler by playing a male - not really physical things, as my characters were never weak: they weren't Mary-Sues (honest!!!), but they were hardly weak. Believable though, and with a tendency to die... But also, it seemed easier to make Kane more introvert - by playing more on his feelings, for example in his relationship with one of the female characters (Rhana, played by Maikadilwen), I was able to make him a more unusual character. Strange, because it would be expected to exaggerate them more with a female character, but with a male it made him different. And since then I've played way more male characters, actually....

However, this is not a preference - it's simply what seems more practical at the time, for the specific RPG.

My characters do end up with some of my traits though, quite often - sense of humour, a slightly cynical outlook and, yes, green eyes, are quite often included in their bios I suppose this is just because I like to put a part of myself into my characters - and this is my way of doing it.

[Sirithheruwen]

Personally I like using men as main characters, rather then woman. I think it looks pathetic when you have some beautiful woman kill ten strong men, walk out of the fight with her hair in a bit of a messed and maybe a broken nail. It looks unnatural and odd...

I agree with that...but who says they have to be beautiful, either emotionally or physically. Perhaps this person is wearing a hood, so no one can tell who she is for a physical disformity or she is pretending to be nice but is really evil? If that were the case that you posted above, I would probably have her die in the process of killing "ten strong men". Oh, I don't know...

OK, I am going to throw a ringer in the works here by disagreeing with everyone.

Ahem...(And I shan't hesitate to quote myself either! )

Actually, when writing fantasy, it's all up to the writer. If you want women to be better than men, they can be. *shrugs also* Clearly, we disagree, but I will leave this at that.

Hmmm, Amanaduial the archer, most of my characters end up with green eyes too (excluding the story I'm sorking on right now.). I think more because I want green eyes than because I have them.

[Nurumaiel]

I do agree with what Sirithheruwen and Child of the 7th Age say... if you're the creator of the world you're writing about women can be fighters. And it always works for the writer. They have fun. But sometimes when the writer doesn't know how to work it out it becomes an immense torture for the reader, a person the writer should consider at least once in awhile if they intend to let others view it. If the writer doesn't know what they're doing the female warrior character can so easily become a typical Mary-Sue. But there can be female warriors that aren't Mary-Sues.

If you can make a believable female warrior character, well and good, and I'll enjoy the story. The only thing that remains is that I'd feel it was unnatural.

*cough* Skip this paragraph if you like, because I'm going to give one of my main reasons for staying away from writing about female warrior characters. I don't know if anyone knows what that means or not. It's because of my Faith. I believe men and women were made 'equal in dignity' but were also given different parts to play in the world. Niluial said:

Woman are more the mothers and the loving type while men are the protectors.

And's that how I've found it to be almost everywhere I've gone (except to the realms of Mary-Sue stories, or occassionally a good writer doing a female warrior).

Now if ever I came up with a story idea that had the need as a female for the main character, I wouldn't cast away the idea because of that. I'd write the book if the idea was good. I write females as main characters sometimes, but I just don't write females as warriors.

And I must add I'm not saying that no writer should write about female warriors (just stay away from Mary-Sues, of course), but I'm saying that I don't. It's just one of my preferences as a writer.

By the way, Child, what you said here

But a Hobbit who lives in a Burrow, runs around cooking meals, and fussing at his children a la Samwise....

was terribly sweet. Charming to think about. Hobbits just are simplicity.

[Durelin]

I will also stick to what I know, which is roleplaying:
I too tend to play male characters, and find it much easier to write as them. I would not say it is easier to write as a male character, but there is certainly something about it... Also, like Aman, I tend to choose according to the RPG, and what character types are needed. Since I tend to stick in the Shire, the many relatively new RPGers like to start out as a character that is their own gender. And since often these RPGers are female...males are a must! In many RPs, to get in on the action also demands a male character, for reality's sake.

I also consider the meaning of roleplaying. In my mind, the point is often to take on the role of someone completely different from you. It is a way to 'escape reality', I guess (I mean, I would find it quite boring to write about reality, at least concerning myself), as well as a way to take a different look at things. You truly do think about things your character is experiencing in a new light, and what the character is experiencing, if he/she is different enough from you, will be enlightening as well. I definitely have not experienced what it is like to be in a battle, but this is something I try to think about, and from my character's point of view (with his own personality, intelligence, background, environment, etc.), when the need arises. I expect it would be the same way when writing a story or a novel.

The fact is, though, men and women are both humans, and so their brains operate in the same way. Just because on average the male and female mind do not think alike, it does not mean that we can't cross over into the other train of thought, just to take into view what it is like. Hmmmm...that sounds kind of odd...

Although none of them, of course, would be able to read a map properly.

And that is why no members of the fellowship were female...

-Durelin

[Aylwen Dreamsong]

Believable though, and with a tendency to die...

That happens to me a lot too. Them darn characters...they just run away and I have no control over whether they live or die!

My very first RPG here (An Audience With the King), I played a male. Not just a male...a male dwarf. I remember thinking, "I'll be fine with anything as long as I'm not in the dwarf group!" Lo and behold, I was assigned to the dwarven group. With help, I got through it and by the end I found it rather fun to be able to play a rough 'n tumble, greedy dwarf, and I didn't shy away from male characters, even if most of my characters have been female. I'd say it's been rather even...I haven't been keeping track really...

In any case, when writing a story that has absolutely *nothing* to do with RPing, I usually have a female character, I'll admit. But I don't make them warriors or anything, I take them from real life and give them flaws (but not too many!) that, say, I would have or my friends would have. Not only that, I surround them with male secondary characters, most of whom turn out to be more loveable or more interesting than the man character!

-Aylwen

[Lhundulinwen]

In most of my short stories (and come to think of it, my novel) all of my warrior characters aren't warriors to begin with. Sure, I have had the occasional sociopathic assassin (which was a LOT of fun to write. Hey, Jade, if you read this- Edward RULES!), but all of my main character hero/warrior had to be thrust into the battle or action. Much like the hobbits, they did not start the actual war, and wanted nothing to do with it until it was dancing on their doorsteps.

Does that make a difference to your oppinion about female warriors? How about the idea of a world where male and female roles are switched? Just wondering.