Fiction in Middle Earth - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Annunfuiniel · 04-10-2003, 05:41 AM

I have no coherent answer to give to your question, davem, but I'd like to post some ideas I had concerning this topic.

At first sight there indeed seems to exist no pure invention in the area of fiction in M-E. But that appears to us that way because we know the legends/"historical" events behind those stories that live in the tradition of elves, men, dwarves and hobbits in the later ages (e.g. during the time of the War of the Rings). If you have noticed the lines that Galadriel states in the prologue of the FoTR you might know what I'm talking about here: "History became legend, legend became myth..."

That's the way our own myths have begun in this real world; the proportion of truth in them might be quite paltry but it is there somewhere. Nowadays the history-part in say the King Arthur tales is so intertwined to the purely fictional parts that to separate them is quite impossible not to say futile.

Now my point is that Tolkien loved myths of our world and wanted to create a myth of his own. Mark this; he wrote a myth not just a fictional story. Well, we know of course that his myth wasn't based on any historical events of our world but on the historical events that took place in M-E or more generally in Arda. So let's pretend we live in e.g. Rohan and hear an old tale about Lórien. Can you tell whether it is true or false or something between? Remember Eomer's reaction when he first met Aragorn and co. And what about the tales of dragons, orcs, giants and other creatures told in Shire? Well, Bilbo knew otherwise but I doubt any Chubb or Boffin took those stories really seriously.

Ok, what I'm trying to say here is that those stories that emerge in LoTR are mostly just that, stories, fiction, to the peoples of M-E whereas we see them automatically as part of their history; the historical truth behind the tales had long been forgotten to those who heard them in M-E. Yes, the tales were no inventions, no pure fiction, but who could tell that? Maybe the elves but they are different in many other aspects as well.

I would argue though that there indeed existed some true inventions i.e. fiction. For example Sam's rhyme of the troll or Frodo's song in Bree strike me as something quite unfitting to the category of old legends (based on history).
Well, I think that's enough nonsense for now. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

-Annun-

[ April 10, 2003: Message edited by: Annunfuiniel ]

[ April 10, 2003: Message edited by: Annunfuiniel ]

04-10-2003, 05:41 AM	#4
Annunfuiniel Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Something close like Shire Posts: 769	I have no coherent answer to give to your question, davem, but I'd like to post some ideas I had concerning this topic. At first sight there indeed seems to exist no pure invention in the area of fiction in M-E. But that appears to us that way because we know the legends/"historical" events behind those stories that live in the tradition of elves, men, dwarves and hobbits in the later ages (e.g. during the time of the War of the Rings). If you have noticed the lines that Galadriel states in the prologue of the FoTR you might know what I'm talking about here: "History became legend, legend became myth..." That's the way our own myths have begun in this real world; the proportion of truth in them might be quite paltry but it is there somewhere. Nowadays the history-part in say the King Arthur tales is so intertwined to the purely fictional parts that to separate them is quite impossible not to say futile. Now my point is that Tolkien loved myths of our world and wanted to create a myth of his own. Mark this; he wrote a myth not just a fictional story. Well, we know of course that his myth wasn't based on any historical events of our world but on the historical events that took place in M-E or more generally in Arda. So let's pretend we live in e.g. Rohan and hear an old tale about Lórien. Can you tell whether it is true or false or something between? Remember Eomer's reaction when he first met Aragorn and co. And what about the tales of dragons, orcs, giants and other creatures told in Shire? Well, Bilbo knew otherwise but I doubt any Chubb or Boffin took those stories really seriously. Ok, what I'm trying to say here is that those stories that emerge in LoTR are mostly just that, stories, fiction, to the peoples of M-E whereas we see them automatically as part of their history; the historical truth behind the tales had long been forgotten to those who heard them in M-E. Yes, the tales were no inventions, no pure fiction, but who could tell that? Maybe the elves but they are different in many other aspects as well. I would argue though that there indeed existed some true inventions i.e. fiction. For example Sam's rhyme of the troll or Frodo's song in Bree strike me as something quite unfitting to the category of old legends (based on history). Well, I think that's enough nonsense for now. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] -Annun- [ April 10, 2003: Message edited by: Annunfuiniel ] [ April 10, 2003: Message edited by: Annunfuiniel ] __________________ Despair is only for those who see the end beyond all doubt.