The source of Dragons

Originally Posted by One Axe to Rule them All

I just got this off the main page, it ought to answer some questions.


"Dragons, the archetypical monster and supernatural creature of most mythologies of mankind, also have their place in Tolkien's Middle-Earth.
Often also named drakes (Old English), worms or wyrms there, dragons in Middle-Earth, are, however, exclusively evil creatures; created or bred by Morgoth, the primeval Dark Lord, in the pits of Angband in the First Age. What their true nature is, and what spirits inhibit them, is still a point of uncertainty, and much debate (as a look on the forum topics on dragons quickly reveals).
All dragons were huge and fierce, and possessed from the beginning a great evil cunning, and they could speak with enchanting voices. The first of them that was released upon the unsuspecting Elves in the Dagor Bragollach, appropriately called the Battle of Sudden Flame, was Glaurung the Golden, father of the Dragons: he was clad in thick scales, and might be imagined to have looked like a huge long lizard on four mighty legs, laying lands to waste with his fiery breath. Later, in the War of Wrath, Morgoth let loose the first flying dragons upon his enemies, of which Ancalagon the Black was the greatest.

The few dragons who survived the War of Wrath and the downfall of Morgoth and his stronghold, removed to scarcely inhabitated regions in the north and north-east of Middle-Earth. The Withering Heath in the eastern Grey Mountains was from then on ever a dangerous region as great dragons still prowled there.
However, with Morgoth gone, they were no longer under anyone's control, as Sauron never mustered the strength to command those mightiest of Morgoth's creations.
Therefore, the dragons used to take abodes of their own, devastating dwellings of the free peoples, and gathering about them great hoards of riches; Scatha, who was slain by Fram, a Northman, and Smaug, the dragon in The Hobbit, both possessed great treasures robbed from the dwarves.

Most we know about dragons is handed down in the stories of a few individual specimen and their slayers.
Glaurung the great Worm of Angband was inevitably and fatally tied to the doom of Túrin Turambar; in a way it was him that carried out the curse of Morgoth. At the Dagor Bragollach, he was not come to full growth yet, and could be warded off by the doughty dwarves. Later, however, when Túrin was staying in Nargothrond, Glaurung devastated it, by then already virtually the captain of Morgoth's troops, and the enchanting glare of his maliciously intelligent eyes created the dreadful fate of Túrin to abandon Finduilas and marry his own sister. When he went to seek Túrin again, Glaurung was slain by him upon crossing a gorge, being stabbed by Túrin's sword into his unprotected belly (a characteristic of most dragons, it seems); but not without revealing Túrin's many errors before passing away.

Ancalagon the Black was said to have been the greatest of the winged dragons, and was released unto the foes of Angband in the War of Wrath. Eärendil, bearing the Silmaril, and accompanied by the great eagles, slew him in his airborne ship.

Smaug was the dragon who expelled the dwarves, among them Thorin Oakenshield, from their kingdom under the Lonely Mountain Erebor.In the great adventure of Bilbo Baggins, Gandalf and the party of dwarves under Thorin, he proved to be a cunning foe, and terrible enemy, as he, roused by the dwarves, descended unto the nearby Laketown, incinerating it, but in turn being slain by Bard the Bowman, who found the only weak spot on the dragon's jewel-protected belly.

The battle prowess, supernatural abilities, and malicious intelligence made dragons most formidable opponents, against whom the group tactics applied by Elves and dwarves availed little except keeping them at bay for a while. In order to slay a dragon in Middle-Earth, it needed a wretched hero, bound to and chosen by fate, armed with a legacy, magic weaponry and not seldom a fey spirit, who would face the beast alone, often meeting his own doom in the encounter."

I think no one made the dragons!!! The dragons have lived centuries without a human tuching or knowing about them!! Maybe tht is what Tolikin is trying to symbolise, that the Dragons is a mystical beast that no human can know were it`s origen began!! The symbol for dragons are tht they have curage,Mystic and are not easy to find!! That`s whan`t Tolkin woud have said!! A Beast shall not be made a origen in a book!!!

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

No. Dragons did not exist for centuries without humans knowing about them. Glaurung, father of Dragons, was unveiled to humans when he was yet a youngster.

[galadriel'smaiden]

This may have been stated earlier in the thread, but if so I missed it.

Were the Ringwraiths' Fell Beasts related tp the dragons?
In my opinion they probably were, or were at least some sub-specie (I hope I spelled that right) of dragon.

[Gil-Galad]

too me fell beast weren't a sub-species of dragons, in the pictures i saw they looked almost like vultures, they were probaly one of many creatures morgoth made yet did not unveil them.

[Gurthang]

Okay, I've got a thought here, but it's still all theory. The Ringwraith's steads could be the missing link in our mystery. So here it is.

There would definately have been many unknown creatures across Arda(like down south where Ungoliant is from, for example). There could have been strange giant reptilian beings in the world. Morgoth took some of them and used his power to inhibit them with fell spirits and to change them physically. Slowly, dragons developed, with fire-breath and cool spell casting eyes. Later wings were added.

Then there are the Nazgul's rides. Sauron, being a good little minion, tried to copy his master's brilliance. Only he could not get that fire thing down, or find the necessary spirits to give them power. So he just threw the wreched critturs to his best followers to play with. And they used them well.

As I said, this is still theory, but its my best guess.


As far as breeding goes, well, I don't really care except it was nearly non-existant

[Gil-Galad]

i still think that Morgoth made a whole bunch of creatures, like experimented with them, yet they either failed, or escaped during the war of wrath, like the wacther and teh fell beasts, they were probaly cretures made by melkor, yet wasn't used too there full extent, suaron just took advantage of it

[PaleStar]

We don't know; it's never really made clear. I like to think Eru put different creatures out of the reach of his Elves, so that they would discover that they didn't know everything (which, I believe, is a problem with those Elves...), and, once they did, to trust Eru's plan, which the Valar did not...the summoning to Aman, anyone?
I sincerly doubt that Melkor could fashion his own creature, Valar though he was. I don't think he was that creative.
Or perhaps I'm wrong, and Melkor just looked at a snake and thought; hey, if I give that wings, and legs, fire-breath, and spellcasting eyes, it'll be my minion!
But this I doubt; the dragon sickness (guarding a wealth that has no use) convinces me that they were already there, and he just took advantage of them.

well guys you must forgive me as i'm new at this and i'm not as well versed as some of you, but according to J,E,A Tyler. Dragon kind was already in middle earth before the comming of Morgoth and he turned them to evil ways. so i'm led to believe that morgoth didn't make them. but they were baad anyway

[PaleStar]

Thanks for agreeing with me, Gurthang. That does makes sense. Why would Eru create something just as powerful as he if he needed to have some sort of dominion over them?
Besides, evil, as is said, cannot create. Only modify what is already there. So I stand by what I said; Dragons were already there, before Melkor ran to Middle Earth and found them.

[NightKnight]

I agree with PaleStar and Gurthang.

It is specifically said (Sil, I think) that Morgoth couldn't create life since his rebellion against Eru. (Yeah, Aulë created the dwarves, but they were given own life by Eru (something like "otherwise they would only be able to move when your thought was with them").)

Morgoth did take elves and twist them into orcs.

i'll give you a twisting of the elves, but raising an army takes time...not just like a snap of fingers

Who said he didn't have time? I think the first appearance of orcs were at the time of the first battle in the Beleriand Wars, which he won (didn't lose all his armies). He had had thousands of years to raise an army. After Dagor-nuin-Giliath (loss), he had 75 years until the next big battle, Dagor Aglareb, to breed a new army. And I think anyone would try to do anything with Morgoth's whip over your head.
Then it took almost 400 years until they came out in great numbers again. The Earth's population has grown with billions in that time. So I don't think that was a problem.

Balrogs were another thing. They were fallen maia, who served Morgoth more or less willingly, stuck in those big, fiery bodies. He might have created their bodies, but not their souls.

Now, the big problem. Where the heck did the Fell Beasts come from? I think that they were either Sauron's attempt of making dragons, like Gurthang said, or some failed creation of Morgoth, perhaps a first sketch of the winged dragons, maybe thrown out of Angband and taken over by Sauron. A third possibility is that they were already existant, maybe in the far south/east and found and bred by Sauron as a cool feature for the Nazgûl.