Green as a representation of evil

[The Saucepan Man]

Since life has two sides --good and bad, perhaps that duality also applies to the color green as well.

For me it's more that green represents both the vibrancy of nature when it is alive and the decay of natural things when they die. That, to my mind, forms the basis for the colour's duality.

Interesting, Saucepan Man that you would pick out blue as a color that carries naturally "good" connotations. The minute you said "blue", a variety of negative images and words flicked through my mind

Well, blue is my favourite colour, so I'd best stick up for it. Yes, there are negative connotations, but there are positive ones too. I find a clear blue sky, for example, most uplifting. And, in Tolkien's works, blue is the colour we associate with Tom Bombadil. But did you take the test that I linked to? The blue liquid and the blue stain certainly provoked less disgust in me than the green ones.

The color of our font here is green, as are the t-shirts, one of which I own. Now, this is not an evil place, one of the finest places I can think of, on or off the web.

Then again, the theme of the Downs is death so the green and black imagery seems quite fitting.

Another thought. Green is associated with jealousy and envy. Not sure how that fits into the discussion though ...

[HerenIstarion]

Green is associated with jealousy and envy

That's even more interesting! Whom by?

[Lhunardawen]

Very interesting thread!

Originally posted by HerenIstarion
Definitely aftermath of reading Dan Brown (not that I agree with his conclusions, but still) recently in my case - seeking hidden symbolism in quite innocent things

The Da Vinci Code, I presume?

Originally posted by Mad Baggins
Another non-Tolkien example is from the Chronicles of Narnia. In The Silver Chair, the witch often turned into a green serpent. Plus, she was formerly known as the White Witch.

I was supposed to quote this when I read the first post. The witch is called the Lady of the Green Kirtle, and she turns into a green serpent. And the archenemy in the earlier Narnia books is Jadis, the White Witch.

As for the color blue, the word itself may be used to mean sad or lonely. Something negative, indeed (at least for me). Then again, a lighter shade of blue such as sky blue can be very relaxing...

The duality of the colors enumerated just shows how open-minded Tolkien can be, instead of stereotyping a certain color as a representative of good or evil.

[HerenIstarion]

Da Vinci Code indeed

As for blue now - In Orthodox Church art blue and gold are colours associated with heaven. Hence I wondered once as of Blue Wizards connotations - those to 'set up mysterious cults in the East'

But Ithryn Luin in themselves are ambivalent - for one thing, there is notion of them 'failing', but there is no sure knowledge, and mysterious cults set up by those are curious thing - perchance those were supposed to form opposition to Sauron in the East?

[Lhunardawen]

But Ithryn Luin in themselves are ambivalent - for one thing, there is notion of them 'failing', but there is no sure knowledge, and mysterious cults set up by those are curious thing - perchance those were supposed to form opposition to Sauron in the East?

Unfortunately nobody knows (maybe Tolkien himself does, or maybe not) what happened to them as they passed to the East, but as this might be a possibility, they might also have been ensnared by Sauron, used for his purposes and vanished from Middle-Earth history (and the books as well).

[Evisse the Blue]

Quote:
Green is associated with jealousy and envy

That's even more interesting! Whom by?

As in 'green with envy'

As for blue now - In Orthodox Church art blue and gold are colours associated with heaven. Hence I wondered once as of Blue Wizards connotations - those to 'set up mysterious cults in the East'

Interesting. Do you imply that Tolkien had this in mind? But Orthodox religion can hardly be hinted at as a 'mysterious cult', IMO...

[HerenIstarion]

Do you imply that Tolkien had this in mind? But Orthodox religion can hardly be hinted at as a 'mysterious cult', IMO

Not sure if I do, but there always is a probability. Maybe, why not.

Mysterious cult maybe one which is secret, and, but it may be one which has 'mysteries' as part of its rituals, and Catholicism and Eastern Orthodox Church alike have Holy Misteries as the central pillar, physical and spiritual manifestation of their belief.

It may have been even 'mysterious' in a sense of 'unknown', 'strange', as Orthodox Church would inevitably be seen by a Catholic Tolkien (members of both holding genuine belief that the other one is erring in its ways). And such a belief implies that way of one or another is true only, but erring one fails.

Hence (and thing to follow is utter speculation) the wizards (i.e. members of angelic order) with the colour associated with the Orthodox Church, which is in the East of our [Christian] world, go to the East of ME and are 'mysterious' = 'strange and unknown', and probably fail.

PS Credit to J.R.R.T for that 'probably'. Be my speculation true, such an allowance witnesses for his tolerance in the matters of ultimate importance to him

[HerenIstarion]

Thank you Evisse, the expression was unknown to me. But I'd rather associate is with facial expression, which may be pale when person experiences strong emotions like jealousy rather than with the colour in itself

[THE Ka]

Originally Posted by Evisse the Blue

As in 'green with envy'
Interesting. Do you imply that Tolkien had this in mind? But Orthodox religion can hardly be hinted at as a 'mysterious cult', IMO...

hmm... maybe he saw the color blue like this...

blue(light): healing of any kind, pyschic awareness, intuition, water mysteries, understanding, quests
blue (dark): dreams, change, meditation, water elements, impulse

Ponder, ponder. think, think. But, when it comes to Orthodox religions they are as mysterious as their Dravidic and Aryan ( also known as early pagan) religions because they are strongly linked to each other... and borrowed alot from each other... okay, i will stop here before i write a whole essay on the Dravidians and Aryain sub-cultur expansion over India, Europe, Eastern africa, Mediterranean and other areas...