Aragorn vs. Denethor....???

[rutslegolas]

I think that the people of Arnor would weigh more upon the judgement of Faramir BOUT THE REAL KING . And dont forget Denethor in his youth had been a great man resisting Mordor and the people thought he used to fight with the Dark Lord in his Tower.

But I too think that people would accept Elessar the King after the Tokens that he piossessed were shown to the people.

[Gorwingel]

Why don't we just look at it from the viewpoint of Aragorn defeating the Dark Lord. I think that hopefully the people of Gondor would have seen that Aragorn was most definitely a more effective leader just because he had ridded them of their greatest foe, and Denethor had not. So, yes, I believe if Denethor would have still been alive he would have stepped down just because of overwhealming public opinion (Now I know that Gondor was most definitely not a democratic society, but hopefully Faramir would have gotten on the side of Aragorn, and hopefully public opinion would have swayed on to the side of Aragorn). But then I also believe that he wouldn't have stepped down non-violently. He was very much a strongwilled character, and would have most likely ended up either being killed sent into exile in some way.

[Mahal]

I don't think Denethor would have stepped down, if he won(the Pelenor battle), his pride would have been even greater. No, I think he would rather commit suicide than to let Aragorn climb the throne.

[Mithalwen]

I don't think the"Gondor has no king" quote is direct but I am sure that Faramir says that Boromir was always asking his father how long it would be before a Steward could become king and Denethor more or less said never..... so I think Denethor would have "done the right thing" even if he had been mighty unhappy about it...because basically he is a numenorean ... I mean Imrahil doesn't question Aragorn's authority for a moment and he is of comparable status..... I think Denethor had become too passive to organise a rebellion but I think he would have been a blight on things..... I agree that he wouldn't have lasted long......

[Elfstone]

There is no way that Faramir would betray his father for Aragorn. The man freely accepted a mission that was madness and would surely lead to his death! To think he would enter a debate involving Denethor on any side but that of his father is folly. And as has already been pointed out, Denethor had the military under his control to the point that they fought to the death to allow him to kill his son and himself.

The way I see it Denethor would have stepped down. After Pellenor Eomer would be squarely with Aragorn, and it's likely that Imrahil would have been, too. When Aragorn and Gandalf explain to Denethor that they are going to assault the Black Gate Denethor likely dismisses it as foolish, but since with the palantir he sees Sauron's might he likely thinks that Gondor has won the battle but the war is still lost and grants Faramir and anyone who wishes to follow him the right to chase a fool's death. Then when Aragorn, with Gandalf, Faramir, Eomer, Imrahil, and the Ring Bearer come riding back to Gondor victorius Denethor cedes control of the city to public sentiment, which would be to the one who the people think is the rightful King.

My guess is Denethor then goes to live in Ithilien to be near his only remaining son.

[Gothbogg the Ripper]

Aragorn, I don't think, would kill Denethor for not stepping down. It would probably escalate into a battle of words and Denethor would most probably end up either exiled or imprisioned, I believe Gandalf warned Pipin that it was dangerous to try and decieve Denethor but Aragorn is more dangerous and the proof of it is that the Army of the Dead answered to him because he was the King of Gondor, plus being a ranger in his past he'd probably met people far more dangerous than a deluded Steward.

[Lily Bracegirdle]

Elfstone, I disagree with you about Faramir. I believe he would have supported Aragorn's claim even if his father were alive. Faramir went on the suicide mission because it was his duty to do as his lord commanded, not out of devotion to his father. (That was one of the things I didn't like about movie Faramir. Book-Faramir said: "It's a stupid mission, but you're the boss, so I'll do it." whereas Movie Faramir said "It's a stupid mission, but I'll do it because then you might love me." That totally weakened the character, IMO.) Part of the reason Denethor was so hard on Faramir is because Faramir thought about things and came to his own conclusions, even if those put him in conflict with his father. Also, Faramir was Gandalf's friend, and you know who Gandalf was backing.

Since one of the things that sent Denethor over the edge was his realization (too late, he thought) that he really did love Faramir, perhaps Aragorn saving Faramir from the Black Breath would have changed Denethor's attitude somewhat. Couple that with the victory at the Black Gate and a tide of popular support for Aragorn, and just maybe Denethor would have stepped down willingly. I think it possible, but unlikely. I do think that both Aragorn and Denethor cared enough about Gondor to avoid another kin-strife at all costs and work out a peaceful, if not mutually satisfactory outcome, though.

-Lily