Flummoxed - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Son of Númenor · 05-31-2004, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Fey isn't in dictionaries?

Guinevere · 05-31-2004, 12:26 PM

I was referring to normal-sized printed dictionaries, German-English! I have 3 at home, and none of it had "fey" in it, not even the fat one. I found it, however, in my Oxford Concise dictionary (English-English) The German-English dictionary my son has for school doesn't even have words like "wraith" "to wield" "fell" in it! (not modern enough, I guess, alas!

)

Estelyn Telcontar · 05-31-2004, 02:28 PM

Guinevere, I found "flummox", "fey" and all of the words you mentioned in my English-German dictionary. It's a Langenscheidt's Großes Schulwörterbuch, 1996 version. "Hobbit" is not included, though "hob" is defined as a "Kobold", an imp or goblin.

Guinevere · 06-01-2004, 02:29 AM

Well, it seems my dictionaries (They're also Langenscheidt) are not large enough!

Anyhow, I just wanted to say that reading Tolkien is quite a challenge to people with only a small or average knowledge of English (My son gave up after the first chapter of the Hobbit... and I know others who just read on but never bother to look up all the words they don't understand)

Thanks Piosenniel for the link to the online-dictionary! (I have overcome my dislike for computers and found the blessings of the internet only after having become a Tolkien fan !

)

The Squatter of Amon Rûdh · 06-01-2004, 03:31 PM

Although the only usable definition of this word is the one invented by Tolkien, it does occur in the Denham Tracts, a series of jottings on folklore collected by Michael Denham during the 1840s and 50s. It appears in a list of supernatural creatures, and is defined by Denham as 'a class of spirit'. There's an outside possibility that Tolkien had read this work and remembered the name, but it's more likely to be a coincidence.

This information came to light in 1979, but the staff of the Oxford English Dictionary had previously asked Tolkien for a definition of 'Hobbit', which still forms the basis for theirs.

Estelyn Telcontar · 06-01-2004, 03:34 PM

I remembered that there was a thread about rare and arcane vocabulary some time ago and searched for it. We discussed Tolkien's usage of words like 'fey' and 'doom' on Tolkien vocabulary - enjoy!

HerenIstarion · 06-02-2004, 05:48 AM

Thx, Squatter, that's the thing I vaguely remembered and promised to dig up. You let me off

Mithalwen · 06-14-2004, 11:43 AM

Yep...flummox and fey are not too obscure ...especially not flummox...... ...i have and would use both though I think I would be more likely to use flummox in speech than writing...

can't say I have ever used confusticate or bebother though.....

05-31-2004, 12:26 PM	#2
Guinevere Banshee of Camelot Join Date: May 2002 Location: Switzerland Posts: 5,830	I was referring to normal-sized printed dictionaries, German-English! I have 3 at home, and none of it had "fey" in it, not even the fat one. I found it, however, in my Oxford Concise dictionary (English-English) The German-English dictionary my son has for school doesn't even have words like "wraith" "to wield" "fell" in it! (not modern enough, I guess, alas! ) __________________ Yes! "wish-fulfilment dreams" we spin to cheat our timid hearts, and ugly Fact defeat!

05-31-2004, 02:28 PM	#3
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,500	Guinevere, I found "flummox", "fey" and all of the words you mentioned in my English-German dictionary. It's a Langenscheidt's Großes Schulwörterbuch, 1996 version. "Hobbit" is not included, though "hob" is defined as a "Kobold", an imp or goblin. __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'

06-01-2004, 02:29 AM	#4
Guinevere Banshee of Camelot Join Date: May 2002 Location: Switzerland Posts: 5,830	Well, it seems my dictionaries (They're also Langenscheidt) are not large enough! Anyhow, I just wanted to say that reading Tolkien is quite a challenge to people with only a small or average knowledge of English (My son gave up after the first chapter of the Hobbit... and I know others who just read on but never bother to look up all the words they don't understand) Thanks Piosenniel for the link to the online-dictionary! (I have overcome my dislike for computers and found the blessings of the internet only after having become a Tolkien fan ! ) __________________ Yes! "wish-fulfilment dreams" we spin to cheat our timid hearts, and ugly Fact defeat!

06-01-2004, 03:31 PM	#5
The Squatter of Amon Rûdh Spectre of Decay Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Bar-en-Danwedh Posts: 2,178	Concerning 'Hobbit' Although the only usable definition of this word is the one invented by Tolkien, it does occur in the Denham Tracts, a series of jottings on folklore collected by Michael Denham during the 1840s and 50s. It appears in a list of supernatural creatures, and is defined by Denham as 'a class of spirit'. There's an outside possibility that Tolkien had read this work and remembered the name, but it's more likely to be a coincidence. This information came to light in 1979, but the staff of the Oxford English Dictionary had previously asked Tolkien for a definition of 'Hobbit', which still forms the basis for theirs. __________________ Man kenuva métim' andúne? Last edited by The Squatter of Amon Rûdh; 06-06-2004 at 07:36 AM.

06-01-2004, 03:34 PM	#6
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,500	I remembered that there was a thread about rare and arcane vocabulary some time ago and searched for it. We discussed Tolkien's usage of words like 'fey' and 'doom' on Tolkien vocabulary - enjoy! __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'

06-02-2004, 05:48 AM	#7
HerenIstarion Deadnight Chanter Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 4,244	Thx, Squatter, that's the thing I vaguely remembered and promised to dig up. You let me off __________________ Egroeg Ihkhsal - Would you believe in the love at first sight? - Yes I'm certain that it happens all the time!

06-14-2004, 11:43 AM	#8
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,461	Yep...flummox and fey are not too obscure ...especially not flummox...... ...i have and would use both though I think I would be more likely to use flummox in speech than writing... can't say I have ever used confusticate or bebother though.....