are there she orcs??

[Lily Bracegirdle]

Just because Tolkien didn't mention them doesn't mean they didn't exist. Tolkien didn't mention female eagles or female Haradrim either, as far as I know, but no one is suggesting they were dug out of the ground. Yes, eagles and Haradrim are "natural" creatures, whereas orcs are something a bit off-center, but my point is not bothering to talk about something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I don't think Tolkien would have cared enough about the mechanics of orc reproduction to include it in LotR. He probably felt our imaginations were horrid enough without going into graphic detail.

"Breed" (the transitive verb) can mean several things:
"1. To cause to reproduce, especially by controlled mating and selection: the Rohirrim breed horses.
2. To develop new or improved strains in (organisms), chiefly through controlled mating and selection of offspring for desirable traits.
3. To inseminate or impregnate; mate with."

I certainly hope Saruman was doing 1 & 2 and not 3!

Getting up sufficient numbers of orcs in 50 odd years is possible depending on starting numbers, when orcs become adults/sexually mature, and how many offspring they have at one time. Let's say time of gestation is a year. So, if you start with 400 orcs (200 of which are female), and orcs become adults at the age of 10 years, and they always have quadruplets:

Year 1: 200 adult female orcs (and 200 male orcs to fertilize them)
Year 2: 200 female, 200 male and 800 baby orcs (400 female, 400 male). The 200 original females breed again.
Year 3: 200 female, 200 male and 1600 baby orcs
Year 4: 200 female, 200 male and 2400 baby orcs
Year 5: etc.
Year 10: 200 female, 200 male and 7200 immature orcs
Year 11: The first crop of 800 baby orcs are now adults and ready to breed.
600 female, 600 male and 7200 immature orcs (the original adults made new babies to make up for the ones transitioning to adulthood)
Year 12: The second crop of baby orcs become adults. 1000 female, 1000 male and 8800 immature orcs (7200 from the original adults and 1600 from the new breeders)
Year 13: The third crop of babies matures. 1400 female, 1400 male and 12,000 immature orcs (7200 from the original orcs, 3200 from the first set of babies and 1600 from the second set of babies.)
Year 14: The fourth crop of babies matures. 1800 female, 1800 male and 16,800 immature orcs (7200 + 4800 + 3200 + 1600)

You can see things are going to rapidly increase from here, especially once the offspring of the original baby orcs start to breed. Even if we stopped after Year 14 and waited another 10 for all the babies to reach fighting age, we'd have 20,400 adult orcs (10,200 male) after 23 years. Under these hypothetical conditions, Saruman would have no trouble building up an army of massive proportions in 47 years (although some orcs might be geriatric). Of course, the timeline changes if orcs mature more slowly or have fewer offspring, but increasing starting numbers can make up for that a bit. If any computer savvy people want to build an "Orc breed-o-meter" so we could play with the parameters, that would be entertaining.

-Lily

[The Only Real Estel]

Just because Tolkien didn't mention them doesn't mean they didn't exist. Tolkien didn't mention female eagles or female Haradrim either, as far as I know, but no one is suggesting they were dug out of the ground.

True, but Tolkien didn't mention someone breeding Haradrim or Eagles, either.

Because Tolkien never specified it (perhaps we should be thankful for that ), we'll most likely never no for sure, but you made some good points, Lily.

[Son of Númenor]

True, but Tolkien didn't mention someone breeding Haradrim or Eagles, either.

Well, the word 'breeding' denotes sexual reproduction (e.g. a farmer breeding pigs, a family of rabbits breeding).'Breeding' cannot be done without sexual intercourse.

While it may not be 100% provable, unless you take The Silmarillion quote that The Saucepan Man provided as definitive, it is far more likely that orcs do breed (or are bred) than that they are somehow 'created' by Sauron when the need arises.

[Lily Bombadil]

I figured orcs reproduced as Men and Elves, but it was always an alien topic with little meaning in my mind. Then, as I was flipping through one of my books...*pauses to retrieve said volume*

Alas! 'Tis lost to me! However, in one of my volumes, (perhaps one of you can help me on which volume) I believe Golfimbul the goblin was refered to as 'Golfimbul son of ____', and-seeing as how I cannot find the book-I do not remember the father's name. (If I am wrong, and Golfimbul is not the goblin in question, please don't impale me.)
However, an orc-or goblin, for that matter-being refered to as 'son of' gives little credit to the 'fish theory' because it implies that orcs do not entirely neglect their young (at least not immediately).

Do I make any sense whatsoever? If not, ignore me entirely. I merely felt up to blurting my thoughts.

[kboleen]

In The Book of Lost Tales, Part 1, Tolkien describes that when Elves die, they are reborn in later generations. Tolkien implies that there are a set number of Elves that neither increases or decreases.

Orcs are Elves that were desecrated by Melkor before the Valar became aware of them, so there must me a set number of Orcs. And when Orcs are killed they are reborn. I guess the real question should be are they reborn as Elves or Orcs?

Uruks, I've not read about thoughly so I don't yet know the origin of them only that they appeared out of Mordor in the late 3rd Age. The Encyclopedia of Arda puts this date approxiametly 2475. Does anyone know if any of the HoME series discusses Uruks?

It seems fairly obvious to me that there are she-orcs, but they stay at home doing all the cooking and cleaning and Tolkien, a man of his generation, didn't think the women worth mentioning. I would imagine they looked pretty much the same as the 'men'.

[Orcrist]

About the young orc thing...
Tolkien does mention young orcs in The Hobbit. He says that Gollum sometimes caught a small goblin imp. I don't know if that menas young orc, but its a place to start.