Feedback and Suggestion Box

[mark12_30]

Child and Esty :

Would it be polite to open a thread(s) as needed for the HoLotR discussions? I'm a bit concerned that bringing Marmaduke, Odo and Bingo into the regular discussions could confuse some of the participants or discourage them, and get the discussions off track. That would hardly encourage broad participation in the LotR threads. And I'd like to be free to get as in-depth as we'd like regarding Bingo, Trotter, et al.

Since the participants will be fewer, we can do threads by groups of chapters, or by books, or what not. We could even put them in Books.

What think ye?
--mark12_30

[HerenIstarion]

Bingo is already there, I believe (or, even, I know), for I put him in myself

Well, I suppose it is all right to bring those gentlemen in as long as poster provides satisfactory explanation who they are (and, of course, who they become, if they did, that is)

[mark12_30]

H-I-- I think your brief reference was fine; you were clear on who you were referring to and why, and the quick reference you made was not off-topic to Fordim's original intent in any way.

However, knowing Child (and me) we will be diving deeper than that, and it doesn't seem fair to burden Fordim's discussion with the detail I anticipate. Child has *already* played Trotter, and we are both certified (certifiable?) Frodophiles; Child states she will be looking for Catholic & Christan references; I will also be looking quite hard at Dreams and Visions (especially Frodo's-- er, sorry, Bingo's)... I'm uncertain what level of fanaticism Esty will bring to the mix. But it doesn't seem quite fair to put it on Fordim's thread.

If needed, we can certainly post links back and forth... Perhaps we should agree to, so that any who are interested may pursue. Nevertheless, I think discussing HoLotR won't take NEARLY as many threads as The Big Discussion will.

**second thought**

I suppose, if new threads were frowned upon, we could sort of "cordon off" our HoLotR discussions on the main thread with asterisks or titles or something. "Those not interested in Bingo may skip this section." But then our discussions will be fragmented and harder to follow.

...Child? Esty?

[Fordim Hedgethistle]

For what it's worth I see no problem with bringing in material from HoME here -- that material is all relevant and interesting and illuminating of the text insofar as it is all really just drafts of the final product and not separate works of their own.

[The Barrow-Wight]

I think we need to keep HoME stuff out of the Chapter-by-chapter discussions. The idea was to discuss the Lord of the Rings and not the entire span of JRRT's writings, right?

[davem]

Barrow-Wight

I think we need to keep HoME stuff out of the Chapter-by-chapter discussions. The idea was to discuss the Lord of the Rings and not the entire span of JRRT's writings, right?

&

HoME is a wonderful resource for those who are interested in delving so deeply into the foundations of the story, but HoME is not LotR.

The thing that has always made me uncomfortable about the publication of the volumes of HoME that related to LotR is that, unlike the material contained in the other volumes, we know for a fact that Tolkien had rejected the stuff in the early drafts of LotR.

This begs the question of whether that material should play any part in a discussion of LotR. Part of me wants it included in this discussion, but I know the danger - that it would exclude too many people who aren't familiar with HoME.

Also, we have to keep in mind always, that some readers like to indulge in the fantasy that LotR is 'real' history, & don't want to be reminded that its all 'made up' by being presented with different versions of the story - it can destroy the magic (breaking things to find out what they're made of, etc) Besides, the Books forum is still going - we don't have to include everything in the chapter-by chapter section.

[Mister Underhill]

Although I'll probably be too busy to follow along in HoME, I think such discussion could have great general appeal and I'd hate to see it carried off into separate threads.

I think that as long as members who introduce HoME material are careful to annotate such contributions (and, I guess I should add, are careful not to let it dominate and overpower the "straight" discussion), I think we'll be fine.

EDIT: Whoops -- cross-posting with BW. Well, this is the Feedback and Suggestion Box. What do others think? Is there general interest?

If not, how can we accomodate the few who are interested? I don't think cluttering up this Chapter-by-Chapter section with "alternate draft" threads is the answer.

[Fordim Hedgethistle]

In thinking further about having HoME in the discussion -- I have never read these volumes and doubt that I will have the time to do so at any point in the near future. If they crop up from time to time here then I could learn about them as we go without having to do the heavy lifting myself!

So long as those who want to refer to those works do so as they have been already, I think that material can only add to the discussion.

[The Barrow-Wight]

Originally Posted by Mister Underhill

I don't think cluttering up this Chapter-by-Chapter section with "alternate draft" threads is the answer.

That was my real meaning, Mister Underhill. We've already had concerns about the Chapter-by-Chapter discussions being available to everyone, so we must be careful not to go roaming away from our true purpose - a Chapter by Chapter discussion of the Lord of the Rings. HoME is a wonderful resource for those who are interested in delving so deeply into the foundations of the story, but HoME is not LotR.

[mark12_30]

BW, I agree that cluttering up the Chapter-by-Chapter area is not good. That was why I suggested (a) thread(s) in Books proper.

Still waiting for Child and Esty to weigh in...

[The Perky Ent]

Will Chapter by Chapter continue on to The Hobbit?

[Aiwendil]

I must apologize for the the fact that the chapter 14 discussion is not open yet; I'm away and with only intermittent access both to the books and the internet. Judging by the level of participation lately, this will not be an inconvenience to anyone. I will start the next discussion as soon as possible; in the interim, if anyone feels an urge to discuss the Silmarillion, the chapter 13 thread is of course (gapingly) open.

Edit: Hmm, four consecutive posts in this thread of rather poor excuses on my part for being late. I really am sorry for my failure in this regard, especially if this is part of the reason for the discussions' general silence.

[The Saucepan Man]

I think that it would be illuminating to include brief references to the HoME writings where this serves to support or clarify a point raised in relation to the final text. Anything more detailed than that, however, would I think only serve to confuse the discussion, particularly as many of us haven't read any of the HoME series yet (OK OK, I know! It's on my list, alright. ).

If there is to be a more detailed discussion of the HoME material, I would suggest opening new threads for this in the Chapter-by-Chapter section.

[The Barrow-Wight]

Agreed. I'm not suggesting we never wander beyond the boundary of the pages of the LotR. Well-annotated and pertinence references to ther sources can be quite interesting, but only if they don't pull us away from the chapter at hand.