Tolkien Speaking Elvish - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Thulorongil · 06-28-2004, 10:06 PM

I had heard that recording of Tolkien before. It really is interesting to hear him speak it. I wish I could have heard that Finnish choir. He does speak rather fast, but it make it more "authentic" as someone speaking their native language would go quicker. (Just ask my friends!)

Yeah, the recording has some different words than those in LotR. The recorded version has inyar únóti nar instead of yéni únótimë and inyar ve lintë yulmar vánier ra rather than yéni ve lintë yuldar (a)vánier as in LotR. Does anyone know why?

The sound of it kind of feels weird, though. More of a repetitive, bouncing almost in the middle of each phrase as he must get through the long syllables of each word before dropping off at the end. Quenya always seems like it should be more flowing, and it is that way when Joy reads it. And everyone will have their own voice and dialect. I guess we're also all used to hearing poetry in our own languages, though, so anything seems strange. I do love the feel of each word, with such pure vowels and expressive sounds.

Lalaith · 06-29-2004, 05:31 AM

I really enjoyed your reading, Joy!
For those of you who find the Tolkien reading a bit strange, try listening a few times, I found it grows on you with repeated listening.

A few things about the different languages mentioned: Lapp (Sami) and Finnish on the one hand and the Germanic/Nordic/Scandinavian languages on the other are entirely unrelated.

Finnish (which is fiendishly difficult to learn) is not an Indo-European language, and is not related to any other language in Europe except Hungarian. The language of the Lapps (or more politely, the Sami) is really many dialects and belongs to the same family as Finnish.

Tolkien found Finnish a beautiful language (it is an indication of his linguistic brilliance that he mastered it!) and did indeed use it as an inspiration for Quenya.

Osse · 07-01-2004, 02:25 AM

I for one, found Tolkien's voice far more 'mystical' than all of the actors in the films. It sounded like he could actually use the language in day to day life (seeing he was fluent in both the elven languages and finnish, he could!) unlike most of the actors who seemed to almost sing the words, which quite frankly is im-bloody-practical... and as for "english accents making the words sound icky" i shall (like squatter [i am so proud of your restraint!]) stop myself from speaking openly, for one could say exactly the same about american accents!

May I say, however, how much I admire Joy for the time and effort she has obviously poured into her endeavour of learning such a difficult language. My hat and heart goes off and out to you.

Keep up the work, and i am sure you'll have it flowing as you say you'd like!!

One Axe to Rule them All · 07-01-2004, 11:14 AM

I always imagined him as an Anthony Hopkins character, but we can't have everything we want...

It would be great to hear Anthony Hopkins speak Sindarin or Quenya some time though!

Bombadil · 07-01-2004, 11:48 AM

It's weird, I alywas thought Namarië was pronounced: (Nah-Mar-ee-uh) But as Tolkien speaks it, he pronounces it: (Nah-Mar-ee- ay) Now I thought that ë at the end gave an "uh" sound? I suppose I'm wrong, but I thought "é" was the only form to give the "ay" sound. Does this mean Manwë is pronounced: (Man-way) ?

Lalaith · 07-01-2004, 01:25 PM

Davem, the audiobook you posted a link to, I think it might be very similar to a cd I got free with a boxed set of LotR I bought about four years ago.
(The boxed set, incidently, doesn't seem to be available any more but it is really lovely, there are seven hardback volumes, for each of the six books of the trilogy plus the appendices and index)

symestreem · 07-05-2004, 07:44 PM

Tolkien read it with the intonation of a Native American shaman telling the stories of his tribe to the children. Or a Maori chief, or an African one, or basically anyone besides an American or a Brit. He really believed in what he was doing.

wilwarin538 · 07-14-2004, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bombadil

It's weird, I alywas thought Namarië was pronounced: (Nah-Mar-ee-uh) But as Tolkien speaks it, he pronounces it: (Nah-Mar-ee- ay) Now I thought that ë at the end gave an "uh" sound? I suppose I'm wrong, but I thought "é" was the only form to give the "ay" sound. Does this mean Manwë is pronounced: (Man-way) ?

"ë" does give"ay" sound Bombadil so Manwë would be pronounced (Man-way)
or atleast thats what I always thought. In French its "ay" so Im sure it must be in any other launguage.

Bombadil · 07-14-2004, 11:41 AM

Haha, it seems i have been corrupted in learning French. Thanks for clarifying! When I first started reading the Sil that's how I pronounced them, but my second time through I developed the idea that "ë" gave an "uh." Don't know how...

06-28-2004, 10:06 PM	#1
Thulorongil Haunting Spirit Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: wherever the road may take me Posts: 97	I had heard that recording of Tolkien before. It really is interesting to hear him speak it. I wish I could have heard that Finnish choir. He does speak rather fast, but it make it more "authentic" as someone speaking their native language would go quicker. (Just ask my friends!) Yeah, the recording has some different words than those in LotR. The recorded version has inyar únóti nar instead of yéni únótimë and inyar ve lintë yulmar vánier ra rather than yéni ve lintë yuldar (a)vánier as in LotR. Does anyone know why? The sound of it kind of feels weird, though. More of a repetitive, bouncing almost in the middle of each phrase as he must get through the long syllables of each word before dropping off at the end. Quenya always seems like it should be more flowing, and it is that way when Joy reads it. And everyone will have their own voice and dialect. I guess we're also all used to hearing poetry in our own languages, though, so anything seems strange. I do love the feel of each word, with such pure vowels and expressive sounds. __________________ I sit beside the fire and think of people long ago, And people who will see a world that I shall never know.

06-29-2004, 05:31 AM	#2
Lalaith Blithe Spirit Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,779	I really enjoyed your reading, Joy! For those of you who find the Tolkien reading a bit strange, try listening a few times, I found it grows on you with repeated listening. A few things about the different languages mentioned: Lapp (Sami) and Finnish on the one hand and the Germanic/Nordic/Scandinavian languages on the other are entirely unrelated. Finnish (which is fiendishly difficult to learn) is not an Indo-European language, and is not related to any other language in Europe except Hungarian. The language of the Lapps (or more politely, the Sami) is really many dialects and belongs to the same family as Finnish. Tolkien found Finnish a beautiful language (it is an indication of his linguistic brilliance that he mastered it!) and did indeed use it as an inspiration for Quenya. Last edited by Lalaith; 06-29-2004 at 05:36 AM.

07-01-2004, 02:25 AM	#3
Osse Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: The Encircling Sea, deciding which ship to ruin next...could be yours. Posts: 274	I for one, found Tolkien's voice far more 'mystical' than all of the actors in the films. It sounded like he could actually use the language in day to day life (seeing he was fluent in both the elven languages and finnish, he could!) unlike most of the actors who seemed to almost sing the words, which quite frankly is im-bloody-practical... and as for "english accents making the words sound icky" i shall (like squatter [i am so proud of your restraint!]) stop myself from speaking openly, for one could say exactly the same about american accents! May I say, however, how much I admire Joy for the time and effort she has obviously poured into her endeavour of learning such a difficult language. My hat and heart goes off and out to you. Keep up the work, and i am sure you'll have it flowing as you say you'd like!! __________________ 'A thinking tyrant, it seemed to Vetinari, had a much harder job than a ruler raised to power by some idiot system like democracy. At least HE could tell the people he was THEIR fault.'

07-01-2004, 11:14 AM	#4
One Axe to Rule them All Wight Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: The Citadel Posts: 212	I always imagined him as an Anthony Hopkins character, but we can't have everything we want... It would be great to hear Anthony Hopkins speak Sindarin or Quenya some time though! __________________ Why are you reading this? Go outside, be happy, get some sunlight! You're so pasty and thin! You horrify me, GO! Get some light before they take you too! It's too late for me but SAVE YOURSELF! For more LOTR fun, Join The Citadel!

07-01-2004, 11:48 AM	#5
Bombadil Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Old Forest Posts: 488	It's weird, I alywas thought Namarië was pronounced: (Nah-Mar-ee-uh) But as Tolkien speaks it, he pronounces it: (Nah-Mar-ee- ay) Now I thought that ë at the end gave an "uh" sound? I suppose I'm wrong, but I thought "é" was the only form to give the "ay" sound. Does this mean Manwë is pronounced: (Man-way) ? __________________ "'Eldest, that's what I am... Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn... He knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless - before the Dark Lord came from Outside.'"

07-01-2004, 01:25 PM	#6
Lalaith Blithe Spirit Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,779	Davem, the audiobook you posted a link to, I think it might be very similar to a cd I got free with a boxed set of LotR I bought about four years ago. (The boxed set, incidently, doesn't seem to be available any more but it is really lovely, there are seven hardback volumes, for each of the six books of the trilogy plus the appendices and index)

07-05-2004, 07:44 PM	#7
symestreem Face in the Water Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 728	Tolkien read it with the intonation of a Native American shaman telling the stories of his tribe to the children. Or a Maori chief, or an African one, or basically anyone besides an American or a Brit. He really believed in what he was doing.

07-14-2004, 11:41 AM	#9
Bombadil Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Old Forest Posts: 488	Haha, it seems i have been corrupted in learning French. Thanks for clarifying! When I first started reading the Sil that's how I pronounced them, but my second time through I developed the idea that "ë" gave an "uh." Don't know how... __________________ "'Eldest, that's what I am... Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn... He knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless - before the Dark Lord came from Outside.'"