LotR -- Book 1 - Chapter 02 - The Shadow of the Past

[Mirkgirl]

((Exuse my poor English.))

Reading the thread (yeah it took a while) I feel the urge to jump into some thoughts that aren't exactly chapter based... but first I want to give Tolkien a credit for being a great author (:

What I really like about this chapter is how it shows the yearnings of both Frodo and Sam for something more. Frodo is almost ready to leave the "well-trodden" paths, while in Sam we only see some distant wish to meet the Fair Folk. Both seem not to find what they need in the Shire, both seem to feel surronded of people who just don't "get it" (that there's something more than just hobbits, that the world doesn't end with Bree). Both "pictures" of the unsatisfied hobbits are done almost poetically and touch us deeply. After this we expect these two to find an adventure and can forgive some long-ish explaining of the history of this little piece of metal. For a moment the mood gets really down with Frodo's understanding that the real journey won't be a jolly adventure, as Bilbo's were. At the end Tolkien again doesn't fail to reward us for the patience, with Sam's funny comments (eavesdropping, something unnatural) and at last his enthusiastic "Me go and see the Elves and all! Hooray!" After all can a journey not be jolly with hobbits in it?

On the nature of effects of the Ring, I have to agree with what you all (seem to) have agreed on. The Ring uses the bearer's desires and gives power enough to fulfil them. But the Ring is an entity of its own, it lets the bearer believe he/she is in command but actually the Ring leads him/her to its own aims. We should not forget that the Ring is nothing else but Sauron. The whole idea of Tolkien's world is that you CANNOT do good with evil means and the ring is simply an embodiement of this theorie.

So, the temptation is greater for the powerful - those who are used to wielding power & ordering things - Sam gives up the Ring with almost no struggle, because he has never had any real power, nor desired any.

I agree with this, but only up to a point. I believe that the main thing that made Sam so ringproof (well... not the best word) was that his deepest desire wasn't to turn the world into a garden but to help Master Frodo. And this is something which no ring, no matter how treacherous, can use. (:

While on this topic, we see Sam's self-denial in this chapter already:

Don't let him hurt me, sir! Don't let him turn me into anything unnatural! My old dad would take on so.

Facing the danger, he thinks of his dad and not of himself.

if Sauron were somehow destroyed and the Ring left, what would happen to it?

Is this possible? I thought it was impossible to destroy Sauron while the Ring exists, as the Ring is, in a way, part of him? Actually is it possible to destroy a Maia completely for that matter?

Why Tolkien felt the need to 'darken' all his characters is an interesting question?

Well for me, this is one of the things that made me love the books. There are no angels, no superheros. Everyone fails at times, fears failure at times, acts foolish or reacts (almost) too late. Everyone has flaws, but exactly fighting them, succeding despite them is what makes one a hero. Actually this is why I dislike most (not all!) RPGs and Fan-fics... they tend to have too flawless characters, elves before all. (:

Excellent post about the practical philosophy of the book... sometimes we forget what all this is about going too deep indeed (: the ancient chinese curse "May you live in interesting times" comes to mind.

One more thing on why the Ring doesn't seem to affect the hobbits that much. Undisputed it's their nature of keep-to-yourself, their apparant lack of wish to dominate... but is it all? This quote made me think about it

But there is only one Power in the world that knows all about the Rings and their effects; and as far as I know there is no Power in the world that knows all about hobbits.

The Ring's powers are given to him by his creator, but he didn't know much about the hobbits. Is it possible that it was a bit of a loophole? Not that it actually matters just some food for thought I guess (:

I'll shut up now... sorry for boring you to tears if you read all this (: