LotR -- Book 1 - Chapter 02 - The Shadow of the Past

[mark12_30]

I like lmp's take on this. The Shire is modeled on Edwardian England. Clocks, umbrellas, blessings, and all. In Edwardian England, the Rules had a firmly religious base, whether it was remembered by the individual or not.

Just so the Shire; The essential Goodness comes from the moral foundation set up by Eru in the king's lands eons ago in Numenor, which oozed over intot he laws brought to Gondor and Arnor, and thence to the Shire with "The King" and "The Rules"-- even if the "Why" of the morality is forgotten. The religion is indeed (in the case of the hobbits) entirely forgotten, but evidence of its foundation apparently still lingers, just like their references to The King and The Rules. They linger like dusty mathoms.

[Mirkgirl]

Being a bit more practical (or cynical) I always saw that pity/mercy repays. Whether in straightforward sense or the higher power intervene (Gollum helping them find the way and destroying the ring at the end) or simply it makes you feel good in your skin and thus less vulnerable (Bilbo and the ring). However it's just a matter of opinion I guess.

The reason for this post is a lot more trivial... I just wanted to post one quote which is from the other end of the book (exactly the second chapter from back too), but still, I believe, belongs to be discussed together with this one.

from "The Scouring of the Shire"
- No, Sam! - said Frodo. - Do not kill him even now. For he has not hurt me. And in any case I do not wish him to be slain in this evil mood. He was great once, of a noble kind that we should not dare to raise our hands against. He is fallen, and his cure is beyond us; but I would still spare him, in the hope that he may find it.
Saruman rose to his feet, and stared at Frodo. There was a strange look in his eyes of mingled wonder and respect and hatred. - You have grown, Halfling, - he said. - Yes, you have grown very much. You are wise, and cruel. You have robbed my revenge of sweetness, and now I must go hence in bitterness, in debt to your mercy. I hate it and you! Well, I go and I will trouble you no more. But do not expect me to wish you health and long life. You will have neither. But that is not my doing. I merely foretell.

Do not kill when it's not needed. It doesn't mean be weak and let your enemies harm you, it simply means do not kill for the sake of revenge only. Also we understand that even revenge can be sweater with the enemy alive

[Essex]

To go back to an earlier point raised by Squatter, regarding Sam's point about the 'Tree-men'

After a few readings of lotr, I finally picked up on this. To me, Tolkien inserts this passage and what transpires later to add yet another example of Loss in this novel. To me, Loss is a central theme to LOTR, whether it be Frodo losing the Shire, Sam losing Frodo, Elrond losing Arwen, Gollum losing the Ring, etc. But for this example, I'm talking about the Ents losing the Entwives.

We hear Treebeard's story to Merry and Pippin in TT, but unfortunately the hobbits were obviously not present at the Green Dragon when Sam spoke about the Tree-men, and did not hear of the story from Sam's cousin Hal. (As to the 'sex' of the tree-men, they could well have been entwives instead of ents of course, what does Hal know....)

If only they had heard this, I hoped.

And I know I'm getting ahead of myself here mentioning ROTK but.....

To add to Treebeard's sadness in Many Partings, as he says goodbye to the Company, Aragorn throws a spanner in the works:

Treebeard's face became sad. 'Forests may grow,' he said. 'Woods may spread. But not Ents. There are no Entings.'
'Yet maybe there is now more hope in your search,' said Aragorn. 'Lands will lie open to you eastward that have long been closed.'

Sam! Are you listening to this? Tell treebeard to look West, not East!!

And to add a twist, it seems Treebeard is only talking as an aside to Merry and Pippin as they drain their bowls:

'Well, good-bye! And don't forget that if you hear any news of the Entwives in your land, you will send word to me.'

Talk to Sam, Treebeard! Talk to Sam! He'll remember......

But no, Tolkien leaves Treebeard in his sadness, and gives us another melancholic example of Loss, foreshadowed by Sam in the Green Dragon in Bywater at the begining of the story......

[Estelyn Telcontar]

"The Shadow of the Past" gives the story depth after the light-hearted beginning, and the sinister foreshadowings become known facts. I'm amused by "Mad Baggins", reminding us how legends grow, starting with some truth and distorting it over time. There's also an echo of the first chapter's account of the death of Frodo's parents in the opinion that Bilbo must have drowned as well.

There are many memorable lines in this chapter - the Ring poem, of course, and Gandalf's wise words on deciding what to do with the time given us, and on deserving death, and on being chosen for a task. Those phrases are of enduring worth and an important part of what makes the book such worthwhile reading - and rereading.

We also get a foreshadowing of Frodo's later inability to throw the Ring into Mt. Doom - he can't even throw it into his fireplace in the comparative security of his home!

I like Sam's "eavesdropping" pun - do you think it was on purpose or accidental?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Indeed, the Shadow of the Past is at first touching the dark things as themselves, though very carefully at the beginning, with good resonances of the Hobbit: Sauron is mentioned as "the Dark Power that was driven from Mirkwood", and Saruman the White is mentioned in connection with the White Council (yay! I remember when I read this for the first time, I thought something like "what silly Saruman? And White? That's going to be some boring all-good leader in the background" - something like the way many people see Manwë or so, you know: the one who sits in the back and does nothing, though he is the goodest of all good. Oh, how mistaken I was! And I'm happy for that ).

I never noticed how fast Gandalf jumps to the topic concerning the Ring. The flow of the story is slow, gentle all the time: this happens, that happens, yada yada, Sam talks with Ted Sandyman, Gandalf arrives as usual, the and Frodo greet each other, and suddenly boom, "Your Ring is dangerous, there were many rings like that in Eregion." Who? What? Why? Total shock. No one knows what Eregion is, no one knows that there were more Rings like that, Gandalf suddenly overflows us with information. The name "Sauron" is mentioned without warning. On some two pages, we learn about Sauron, Mordor, the Three/Seven/Nine, we learn about the Ringwraith - I would call the two pages that follow after the Ring-verses "intensive course of M-E arcana". Yet I never had the feeling of confusion when reading this, unlike for example the story about Fëanor and Fi(-nwë, -narfin, -ngolfin, -nrod etc.).

As to Sam's eavesdropping, I always thought it was intentional "playing dumb" (as Gandalf tells him). Anyway, Sam is just wonderful and his words at the end of the chapter always make me laugh.

Also one thing I did not consciously realise until now: I always had the feeling that the Ring-script is supposed to be read from right to left. Does anyone of you have the same feeling when you look at it?

[Rumil]

Hi all,

another well-discussed chapter, and the crucial one for the plot after all.

Typically I'll try and pick up a few minor points.

But now Frodo often met strange dwarves of far countries, seeking refuge in the West. They were troubled and spoke in whispers of the Enemy and of the Land of Mordor

I think this shows dwarves of the Eastern houses, for surely those of Erebor or the Iron Hills would not be considered 'strange' by Frodo? Therefore they must have had quite a journey from the mountains of the East (Yellow Mountains?) perhaps disturbed by Sauron's increasing domination of the East.

Another thing is that 'queer folk' were crossing the Shire and more being turned back by the Bounders. If these were refugees, then where were they coming from? Perhaps they were the first scouting parties of Saruman's spies?

[davem]

Sam fell on his knees, trembling. 'Get up, Sam!' said Gandalf. 'I have thought of something better than that. Something to shut your mouth, and punish you properly for listening. You shall go away with Mr. Frodo!'
'Me, sir!' cried Sam, springing up like a dog invited for a walk. 'Me go and see Elves and all! Hooray!' he shouted, and then burst into tears.

From Njal's Saga:

Then Gunnar rode from the Thing west to the Dales, till he came to Hjardarholt, and Olaf the Peacock gave him a hearty welcome. There he sat half a month, and rode far and wide about the Dales, and all welcomed him with joyful hands. But at their parting Olaf said, "I will give thee three things of price, a gold ring, and a cloak which Moorkjartan the Erse king owned, and a hound that was given me in Ireland; he is big, and no worse follower than a sturdy man. Besides, it is part of his nature that he has man's wit, and he will bay at every man whom he knows is thy foe, but never at thy friends; he can see, too, in any man's face, whether he means thee well or ill, and he will lay down his life to be true to thee. This hound's name is Sam."

After that he spoke to the hound, "Now shalt thou follow Gunnar, and do him all the service thou canst."

The hound went at once to Gunnar and laid himself down at his feet.

Well, it made me think.....