Still forming your own images of Middle-earth, or stuck with Elijah and co.?

[The Saucepan Man]

I'm not surprised many movie-goers mistook his relationship with Sam for a homosexual one.

That particular nasty piece of misinterpretation was around long before the films ever came out. For people who have the inclination to so so, there is sufficient material in the book to view the relationship between Sam and Frodo in that way. Personally, I am glad that they had the courage not to exclude such material from the films.

I have to say that I wasn't a fan of Elijah in the first two films, and indeed throughout much of RotK. Too much eye rolling and falling on his backside for my tastes. And, although I have no problem with a youthful looking Frodo since there is material in the book to justify that, I did feel that he lacked the experience to portray the depth of Frodo's character. However, I can forgive him much for his performance from the "Wheel of Fire" speech through to the Eagle rescue. For me, Elijah's Frodo came of age in those scenes.

[Noxomanus]

Being convincing in the last parts of an in total 9,5 half hour movie does not qualify as good acting in my honest opinion.

[The Saucepan Man]

Being convincing in the last parts of an in total 9,5 half hour movie does not qualify as good acting in my honest opinion.

Well, I personally would not criticise the quality of his acting throughout the three films, simply his realisation of Frodo the character from the books (which is as much, if not moreso, the fault of the script-writers). But since Frodo, in common with many characters in the films, is not the same character as that portrayed in the book, I can live with this (even if I do find his eye-rolling and falling over irritating in parts). But, in those final scenes, I caught clear glimpses of the original Frodo and this, for me, made those scenes even more moving.

Now that I am re-reading the book again, the Frodo in my head has an Elijah-ish quality in terms of his appearance (although he is not identical) but his character remains quite different from the character portrayed by Elijah throughout much of the film trilogy.

[Osse]

Having nestled myself in the lush grass in the shade of that great tree of objectivity, I feel it is finally time for me to stop just reading the posts on this thread and actually contribute! I, like many of you, my esteemed colleagues, am not a fan of Mr. Wood. Indeed one might be so bold to say that master Elijah is my least favourite choice for any character in any of the three films. Now before I go on, Saucie, I know that you feel that the age appearance of Elijah’s Frodo is justified, from both the text and Tolkien’s own musings, however, I still find his appearance most un-hobbitish and immature. It is impossible to look at someone of his appearance and still be given those feeling of youthful, yet deep wisdom that we are given when we imagine the book driven Frodo. Frodo always had an air of knowledge and affluence around him, something that (at least for me) did not come across in Mr. Wood’s portrayal of the character at all.

I know you are not saying that he fits the um… (Can’t be shoes…) hat of the book-Frodo, and you were merely saying that he wasn’t all that bad in the last portions of Return… and I see your point, he certainly did show at least some acting prowess, prowess that I had convinced myself he did not possess in the dying scenes. This however, is by no means redeeming, and listening to the little prat in person makes my skin crawl, and certainly makes any less-harsh feelings I felt towards him fade like mist in the sun.

To be completely honest, I have certainly found myself half pondering what Tolkien would be like for me if the films had not emerged as they had of late. Though they certainly haven’t ruined any of my imaginings, they have certainly made them become more obscure and more difficult to find. I really have to probe to get past the visual portrayals, and whereas in the past I was able to imagine them without the text being fresh in my mind, I now need to have recently read or scanned at least portions of the texts. Others have stated that they felt the films just added to their imaginings and if anything made them stronger, I however feel that at least a part of my private enjoyment has been taken – when the films were non existent, my imaginings were mine and mine alone. – No one on earth imagined anything quite the way I did! This to me was like a private affair with the professor and his writings, and added to the pull of appeal that I felt.

However, minor characters that I hadn’t really formed detailed mental images of, I believe, benefited from the films – though the images weren’t mine, at least they were there!

All in all however, I think seeing Middle Earth and its peoples in such visual splendour was fantastic, and though it has perhaps taken somewhat from my literary experience, it has nonetheless added to my enjoyment of Tolkien’s works… sometimes you have to lose some of what you love in order to really appreciate it.
I wouldn’t have it any other way.

[The Saucepan Man]

It is impossible to look at someone of his appearance and still be given those feeling of youthful, yet deep wisdom that we are given when we imagine the book driven Frodo.

I wouldn't disagree with that, which is why the image that I have is Elijah-ish but not identical.

[mark12_30]

I, personally, did not care for that scene. I felt as though it was rather forced, especially as it went against the laws of physics. Elves were lithe, strong, and quick, but they were not completely superhumans, though they were immortal. This shot, in my opinion, made it look as though Elves could fly or something equally as impossible to their kind.

This opinion surprises me.

In Maine, back in 1979, I knew a lithe, extremely talented cowgirl (named Karen) who had a barrel-racing palomino named Buck. While the horse was standing still, she could swing up onto his saddle one-handed. The motion was similar. (I have pictures of her trail-riding her horse, back in my archives somewhere, but unfortunately have no pictures of this stunt, so my memory will have to suffice: )

To mount, she would stand at Buck's left shoulder facing his haunches, take a step back, holding the horn of the western saddle with one hand, swing her right leg up over the horse's haunches, push off with her standing leg, use her hand to sharply pull her hips onto the saddle, and then the momentum of the kick would bring her upright in the saddle. Then (and only then) she would casually put her feet into the stirrups.

She weighed perhaps ninety pounds. Her horse "Buck" stood at least fifteen hands. It was an impressive-- nay, spectacular sight to see this little slip of a girl go from the ground to the saddle in one smooth motion.

I tried it a few times and succeeded only in seriuosly embarassing myself (and kicking the poor bay mare I was riding.) However, I believe that with practice, improved strength, and timing, I would have eventually been able to do it.

When I saw the Legolas/ Arod stunt, there are three added factors. One, it was "performed" at the canter. Two, he grasped the breastplate, not the saddlehorn. Three, Gimli was a challenging obstacle. Hence, my chief thoughts were that "for the real elf", it would be tricky to catch the breastplate just right at the canter, but that it was plausible; and it would be hard not to kick Gimli right off of the horse.

So while the lovely arc made by his cloak was clearly CGI, other than that, I was easily able to attribute the spectacular timing to Legolas' elvish nature. If Karen could do it at the halt, I suppose an elf could do it at the gallop, even with Gimli there to increase the difficulty.

[The Saucepan Man]

But wasn't Legolas facing forward, away from the horse, at the start of his maneuvre. I don't know whether, objectively, the maneuvre is possible or not, but the way that it is portrayed in the film, it does look physically impossible to me. Having studied it once or twice since the issue was first raised, it looks to me like his arm would have to pass through his body. But then again, I'm no expert in Elven horseman(elf?)ship.