Annoying experts

[The Only Real Estel]

I agree with Meela that experts are usually perfectly fine, & even when they're not I can still learn something from them. The only thing that annoys me a bit is when someone goes into a short summary of the life of a character just to answer a question that would've taken one sentence to say. Or, worse yet, all they ever wanted to do was agree but decided to expound upon every tidbit of the character's character. It comes across as: I'm throwing a bunch of facts out here (99% of them everyone already knew) to show that I know quite a bit about this character; though I'm sure they don't mean to come across that way. It mostly happens with newbies, they think that most of the people here know little about Tolkien so they decide to start of with a good post full of education for those that know far less than them ( I'll admit my first few posts on this site followed that line ).

Cheers,
Estel

[Lalwendë]

Heh, I'm sure I've done exactly that kind of thing many a time! I was once asked why Elrond was sometimes referred to as 'half-elven' and I was still there half an hour later while this poor guy was sitting nodding and going 'um, yeah'. If he'd had some matchsticks I'm sure he'd have used them to prop his eyelids open. I put it down to enthusiasm, that's all!

[The Only Real Estel]

I put it down to enthusiasm, that's all!

Well as long as you're still on the topic of Elrond & why he's called half-elven (giving yourself a little room to stray), it's when you start talking about how Elrond's mother-in-law was Galadriel, who married Celeborn, etc. that it gets pointless .



http://www.flashplayer.com/music/haveuforgotten.html
click on view title button & listen to the lyrics while you watch)

[Knight of Gondor]

Folks, you know you do sound ever complaining . Some people annoy you as they are amateurs, the rest are hated for being experts. What are you after, than? The standard, the image of ideal Tolkien fan I crave for!

Not so, HerenIstarion! We’re talking about people of both breeds that are annoying in either their amateurity or their “expertise”. I don’t think anyone is annoyed (nor would be justified in being so!) because anyone is either learned in Tolkien, or ignorant of his works.

Middle aged, well-of, happily married and well employed, parent of two blondish blue-eyed infants and, of course, psychologically balanced?

Um...probably not exactly, since I’m young, poor, single, unemployed (I’m still a student), I don’t have any kids, and I’m sure one or two people could contest the claim of being psychologically balanced. (Any guy that spends three hours hitting the redial button in the hopes of getting on The Sean Hannity Show might be semi-insane...but I don’t know, because it worked!)

Don't you just hate those people who back up their assertions with quotes from Tolkien's Letters and thereby kill a thread?

Provided that letters confirm the assertion, can't see what goes wrong there

I suppose so, but I can understand where, in most cases, a definitive answer from Tolkien’s own hand kills the reason for discussion because it answers the point of debate completely. (Usually)

Can we say "Canonicity?"

Yes, but we can’t define it.

“Experts are never annoying, only interesting."

That’s just because no person who thought himself an expert came up and annoyed Mr. Tolkien.

I'm guilty of every variety of correcting people's pronuncations. Even though I'm by no means as much of an expert as, say...well, 99.95% of the experts on the Forum...I always correct how people say things - especially when they try to pronounce the Elvish names for things. Although my friends are just like me, so we can be annoying in pretentious as a unit at least.

You know, along the lines of defining the “typical” Tolkien fan, I would think that the “typical” fan would WANT to learn the different pronunciations, the correct ones, provided that they are not given in a manner that boarders on arrogance. And we should all keep in mind that we were all once bumbling amateurs too. I used to think it was “Sar-ROO-man”, not “SAR-uh-man.” And Galadriel’s husband was “Sel-a-born” before learning that C’s are hard in Elvish. (I got corrected on that Sar-roo-man pronunciation by my parents, who knew nothing of Tolkien, but knew that sar-roo-man, however the alternate spelling is, was actually a medical term for ear wax! :P)

The one that randomly pulls out The Sil references to go into everyday life without explaining them to the other people who haven't read The Silmarillion. Do any of you find yourself doing that?

Um...no.

[Knight of Gondor]

I have not met many annoying "experts." Okay, only one

Welcome, Araréiel! And yes, even one annoying expert counts.

and I couldn't stand him at all.

Well if he was nice, then he wouldn’t belong on the thread about annoying experts, now would he?

there've only been extremely annoying newbies who don't even care to learn, yet like to act like know-it-alls to impress people.

In which case you should, as you probably already have, visit the Annoying Amateurs thread. If nothing else, it will teach you how to type amateur without making a spelling mistake!

Are there any of those "experts" in California? Or others who want to learn more?

What you have to do is educate yourself to the best of your ability. And remember that when I say “expert”, we all mean as best as a person can hope to become as a civilian Tolkien fan. Yes, technically, no one but Tolkien and his son can be experts.

I really don't think anyone is an "expert" at Tolkien, maybe not even Tolkien himself.

I would think that Tolkien would know the most about his works...! But as I said above, when I say expert, I only mean as far or high as the average person can go in “expert” status.

[Knight of Gondor]

No matter what you know there is always much more you can learn.

Do I detect a Ken Ham quote? “There’s always an infinite amount more to know, which means no matter how much you know there’s always more to know, which means no matter how much you know, you don’t know how much more there is to know anyway, which means no matter how much you do know or don’t know, in relation to what it is, whatever that is, so let’s face it, you just don’t know much at all.”

I will correct people but as the knight of gondor posted, not really in an "arrogant" way.

Yes sir, by setting the proper example, I’m a knight a fellow can look up to!

To tell you the truth, I've almost never met anyone who is even a bit into Tolkien... So tell me, is your environment crowded with Tolkien amateurs, experts and haters?

I don’t meet up with too many Tolkien fans either, Mariska Greenleaf, but it’s a matter of my environment. You have to know where to hang out. I’ve attended a Lord of the Rings church study group, and a lecture or two at the local college, but sometimes, the experts or amateurs are on THIS board!

So I guess that when I would meet an annoying expert, I would kinda like it...

You don’t want him or her to be annoying! We’re not complaining about self-styled experts or amateurs themselves, we’re talking about how they act arrogant, either way.

[Knight of Gondor]

Yes, yes, I've continually had run-ins with... ir....shall we say: a published writer.
He's doing tours, and regularly posts everywhere, I'm sure even here, too. I like his work very much, but when he grabs onto a thread and maims it unmercilessly with facts that he has been looking up for years (professionally!), I tend to get a bit flustered. Sometimes he's amazing; other times, he's just plain boring.
Oh, well. I'm sure jealousy enters into this. It's just a shame I didn't do what he's doing, years ago. I could have been famous. BAH!

Are you sure this isn’t annoying to you just because he knows so much? Because just knowing a lot doesn’t make them annoying; they have to act annoying too. And also, you neglected to mention WHO THIS PERSON IS!

I don't mind experts, since I can learn a lot from them

Isn’t this the same Meela that used to be so in like with Denethor? Looks like we’ve moved on to Éomer, eh?