What colour is Legolas` hair?

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Hares, weasels, fawns? When you get this far off topic, you really ought to wonder if its worth carrying on.

[The Only Real Estel]

Hares, weasels, fawns? When you get this far off topic, you really ought to wonder if its worth carrying on.

Yeah, we should try to keep more to the 'topic' instead of going of on all these 'bunny trails'...

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Now was Bambuilas a gigantic or miniture hare?

No, no, Wilwarin! Bambuilas was the fawn! He was normal sized, or so say all reliable accounts. His father cameoed in The Hobbit, as the Dwarves and Bilbo were crossing the water in Mirkwood. It would have been Bambuilas making the appearance (as was originally planned by Tolkien), only he was too busy nosing around Elmerf's hair dye (purple, as chosen by their owner).

Fea

Another note: Since the original topic change was noted and allowed by the Master Wight himself, we are left to surmise that so long as we stay on the crazy topic of Legolas' pets and their appearances and mannerisms, we'll be okay. At least I think so...

[wilwarin538]

Sorry bout that Fea, I suppose I didnt read your last post very thoroughly, I just missed the fawn part. My mistake.

[Evisse the Blue]

You people are truly insane. Here I was, thinking 'why would a thread debating the colour of Legolas's hair reach 3 pages and still going strong?' and meanwhile you were here discussing the lesser-known fauna of Middle Earth (I mean the one that's not already covered in the Warg and Warg-Rider Appreciation thread. Yep, I checked out your much-advertised thread, Eomer. I was thinking it's time you placed a pop-up: when people log on the Downs, they'd be warned that in order to avoid an unfortunate accident they might have today, they should check out said thread at once ).

But returning to the subject at hand, since you're all so learned in the subject of Legolas's hare, please tell me what part did the hare play, if any, in the quest. Because, even if he was a tiny hare, we must remember that 'even the smallest animal can chage the course of history'.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Agreed Fea, as long as it concerns Legolas and the animals of his life, I will support this thread.

And Evisse, it is nice to know that my 'techniques' are working.

[wilwarin538]

Oh no my thread is dying. I would much like to hear your opinions on the disposition of Elmerf, as Fea suggested earlier. I personally think he was a very quite hare that only rarely got upset, but who knows he may have also been a mean bunny, thou I highly doupt it since Legolas would probably only want a nice pet. Thoughts????

Wilwa

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I think Elmerf was probably not too nice, but completely unthreatening nonetheless. This attitude would come from years of being spoiled by the Handsome Prince.

By the way wilwarin, I can relate to your anxiety about the 'life' of your thread. Been there before.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Do you guys know any reliable source that would tell if Elmerf was a bunny lad or lass and how old was he/ she? Because that, I believe, influences on the behaviour of Legolas' dear pet - or should we call that bunny in this case a domestic animal...
Depending on the status of the hares of Mirkwood, they might have been considered as domestic animals.

Anyway, I think that Legolas would have preferred a male hare for the job of a Prince's personal domestic animal. For so lofty a job must even the youngest novice rabbit have unswerving fidelity and good looks (of course). Elmerf had to act like a noble ambassador in public, but who knows what he was busying himself with on his spare time

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Do you guys know any reliable source

Indeed, Dancing Spawn, The Book of Lost Tails is a great source indeed, although long since out of print and most copies have been destroyed through freak accidents and llamas. It gives many details about the animal companions of Middle Earth that are so embarrassingly over-looked elsewhere. It tells us not only that Elmerf was a bunny lad, but that he had a twin! She, of course, was named Caerwen and was rather mean. Shunned out of the life of hare politics, you know? Left to guard a cave somewhere... Anyhow, I suggest everyone here giving The Book of Lost Tails a thorough reading... Bambuilas is discussed in great detail.

Fea

PS- No worries Wilwarin, we'll keep your thread alive. Or dead, whatever seems more fitting for this place.

[wilwarin538]

I never liked llamas. I will have to get my self a copy of that it sounds extremely interesting. I suppose since Caerwen was shunned for being mean then that would prove that Elmerf was not mean, since as far as I know he wasn`t not left to go guard some cave. Or of course it could of been some plot and he might have framed his sister for something so he could have Legolas to himself? Anything is of course possible.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I would have to disagree that anything was possible. The notion that Elmerf would become as beautiful and beloved as Legolas is surely absurd. Legolas is a notorious control freak and egomaniac in Mirkwood, thus he would hold Elmerf back.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Eomer, do you truly believe that Legolas would hold back his beloved hare from receiving the kind of love that any good pet deserves?

I must say though, it is entirely possible that Elmerf was one mean little bunny... he was just notoriously better at covering it up that Caerwen was. I heard a rumor that one time, Elmerf attacked Aragorn's dog... it was all hushed up, but it was never forgotten, which, apparently is why dogs chase rabbits these days.

Fea

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Fea, it all adds up doesn't it?

And yes, I truly believe in a dark and maniacal side to Legolas' nature. It comes out in its most devilish form when other 'cute' things are present.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Ah yes, Legolas' inferiority complex... he's pretty, yes, but can't bare to be in competition with other pretty things. Why do you think you never see him near Arwen? I suppose that would mean that his hare was a somewhat plain looking hare, as opposed to the breathtakingly gorgeous image I had conjured in my head. Poor little Elmerf...

Fea

[Nimrothiel]

*Ah yes, Legolas' inferiority complex... he's pretty, yes, but can't bare to be in competition with other pretty things. Why do you think you never see him near Arwen?*

True, in point of fact he spent most of his time before the Council of Elrond sulking in his room and trying all sorts of beauty tricks to make himself look far better than her. Unfortunately for him, Merry and Pippin picked up on this and some of his beauty products were switched with some rather nasty substances. His mudpack for example...well, maybe I shouldn't go into detail on that one. He only volunteered to get away from Arwen so he could be the prettiest and to make Merry and Pippin's deaths look like an accident. Obviously he later repented of the latter, but this is due to the fact that Hobbits are so cute and irresistable that even Elves cannot resist them. Note: That is the official version as recorded in Legolas' biography; however, it's rumored that he forced the Hobbits to replace all of the pilfered beauty products and treat him to a weekend at a fabulous spa. There are also rumors that somehow one of the mudbaths contents were switched with something most foul, and it was at this point that Legolas and Gimli departed to the Grey Havens to begin working on their ship to depart from Middle-Earth forever.

[Oddwen]

I was reading the Stupid Ring parody the other day (www.stupidring.com), and I couldn't help but notice this:

He pulled his long white knife from his belt and, dismounting quietly, crept aside as a plump white rabbit hopped out of a nearby shrub. Moving too quickly for mortal eyes to catch, he whipped the knife back and forward. As it flashed through the air towards the coney, he thought he glimpsed a bit of gold.

(Leg: Gold?)

He trotted, satisfied, towards his catch. Grabbing the coney by the ears, he grasped the golden handle of the long knife and pulled it out, wiping it clean on the grass. ... Sweeping his hair aside (it was definitely blond, now), he resheathed the two knives on his back and carried the dead rabbit, a traditional guest gift for Lord Elrond, back to his horse. He remounted (the saddle was still there, unfortunately) and trotted on towards Rivedell.

What does this new development mean? Do the writers of StupidRing know something that we yet don't?

[wilwarin538]

I wonder if they do. Its funny that someone who owns a rabbit would kill one. Maybe because it was white and he only likes likes multicouloured hares like Elmerf.

[Oddwen]

Or perhaps Elrond just liked to be reminded of the larger variety of hare, rather than hearing of the (supposedly) mythical mini-bunnies.

[wilwarin538]

Wow, its been forever since anyone has posted here on my thread, it might have something to do with my extremely loonngg absence from the BD, but no worries it is only do to the fact that i have homework a mile high its not because i dont LIKE the BD. But i have to be truelful i kind of forgot about my thread and was reasently reminded of it whan my sister received a rabbit teddy bear for christmas and i heard myself yell:

" Oh my Goodness, Elmerf!"

So now even though it has been 3 days since christmas i have finally gotten the chance to return and i would love for our discussion about Legolas' amazing hare Elmerf to continue.

Sincerely,
Wilwa

[elronds_daughter]

Shall I?

I recently came upon this in a stack of papers I found lying about...

By Eru, what has gotten into Elmerf? He's been into my closet, into everything, chewing things up! But I love the cute little fellow anyway.

Perhaps I have stumbled onto 'The Personal Journal (Regarding Elmerf) of Legolas Greenleaf, Esq.' My, my....

[wilwarin538]

Where about might that be?? Perhaps if you looked alittle closer in this "about" you could possibly find us some ore extremely valuable information.

So I supposed that this little journal entry from Legolas tells us what Elmerf likes to eat. The contents of Legolas' closet!!! Strange.

Thoughts???

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Have you heard of Elmerf's hare heir? 'tis said in Untold Tales: Stories of Middle-earth That Should Never See the Light of Day that Elmerf had a son with Glorfindel's Beleriandic cottontail, Yosmitë--she has red hair, which is rare for the Middle-earth rabbits, but common in the Beleriandic breed--which they . . . errr . . . contrived before the Council of Elrond. The son was unnamed, but some surmised that it passed West when Glorfindel's horse was stolen by Arwen.

The color of the hare is still a conundrum. Perhaps I can dig up some quotes tomorrow, and let the Downers decide for themselves.

You suck at this.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

But it has been told that the culture of alcohol and rowdiness which dominated Mirkwood (read The Hobbit) so influenced Elmerf that he turned into a true rogue, a devilish rapscallion; and now we speak of his son? Is there any inkling as to what kind of father Elmerf was?

[elronds_daughter]

Where about might that be?? Perhaps if you looked alittle closer in this "about" you could possibly find us some ore extremely valuable information.

I believe it was in an open briefcase at a seldom-frequented bus stop....

which they . . . errr . . . contrived before the Council of Elrond

I seem to remember that.... Only vaguely, as it was something I would have liked to forget...

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Eomer, Elmerf left Yosmitë after their . . . ummm . . . meeting. So he was an absentee father.

Which might be better for their son, seeing the qualities of Elmerf you mentioned.

I seem to remember that.... Only vaguely, as it was something I would have liked to forget... (elronds_daughter)

~*~

Here is the quote regarding Elemerf's heir's hair colour:

In the second MS of unpublished Appendix G: Of Many Other Things, there was a slip of paper which contained a story of Frodo while he was compiling the Red Book. I did not know what my father's intention was regarding this tale, so I left it out in previous publications. But now it seems (with the discovery of Legolas' hare) that it must be made public.
The narrative is as follows:

My uncle Bilbo left a note in the second part of the Red Book. It contains an astonishing account of his stay in Rivendell during our departure. The queer thing was, it narrates of a rabbit. I've heard of Legolas' hare, but a rabbit in Rivendell? Surely Elrond must have known of it (and disposed of it thereafter). The tale seems unfit to keep in the Red Book, so I shall write it in another book (which shall be purple).

The Purple Book of Secrets

I was sitting in the Hall of Fire; not sleeping, mind you; when furtive footsteps awakened me (I mean startled). I looked around, and I saw something in the corner. What it was could not be seen clearly, for it was swathed in shadow, in the middle of which was a form, of hare-shape maybe, yet smaller.
'Hullo there, little friend,' I said to it, but it made no answer, instead its red eyes glared at me. The shadow about it reached out like black fur. I was scared, but I stood firm.
'You must be frightened. Come on, now, don't be scared of Bilbo,' I said, as I coaxed it to come out. It stepped forward slowly and suddenly its black fur were standing on its end. It scampered past me and ran into Glorfindel's room. I made my way to the door, and put my ear to it.
'There you are, $@#&!' I heard him say. I did not think that this creature, if hare it is, had so fell a name.

The hare, perhaps, is not of the tiny breed, which Elrond in his folly did not believe exist. It was, perhaps, the offspring of Legolas' hare, Elmerf. If so, I do not know what creature would bear such a bunny.

Then in the back there was written 'rumours of Glorfindel's hares will reach Frodo's ears.' I do not know if there is a connexion between the two, but if there was, I fear what it is.

Untold Tales

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by Nilpaurion Felagund

Eomer, Elmerf left Yosmitë after their . . . ummm . . . meeting. So he was an absentee father.

Yosmite? Is that the name of Elmerf's son? Interesting. RED eyes? Well very creepy. The purple book, I believe I had read something from it once. I can't remember what. But when I do I will inform you.

I still cant belive I started this thread it went way off the topic I had originally made but it has turned out amazing. Thank you everyone for your information.

~*Wilwa*~

[Oddwen]

Now 'tis indeed strange, for reading the Unstarted Tales the other day I found this passage concerning Elmerf's and Yosmitë's leveret:

Suddenly into view came a white horse...running swiftly.
The rider's cloak streamed behind him, and his hood was thrown back; his golden hare streamed behind him in the wind of his speed.

(emphasis mine)

Now indeed, could this be the hare of which Nilpsy spoke of? And if it was indeed

Streaming behind him in the wind of his speed

could that indeed mean that the hare was flying, and had wings?

[elronds_daughter]

<Sarcastic Gasp> Oh, no! Another "wing-or-not" debate!! Huzzah! I think the hare was winged. Other opinions?

[wilwarin538]

A winged hair oh my! Didn't expect that. But Oddwen I don't understand how that could possibly be talking about Elmerf? It sounds to me like it was talking about a horse, a flying horse. I don't believe that Elmerf or Yosmitë had wings.

But I do remember what it was I had read from the Purple Book, I believe this happened when the dwarves asked Bilbo to climb one of the Mirkwood trees to see what he could see:

As I looked around high up in that tree looking at the black emperor butterflies I heard a strange noise. I turned around but saw nothing so I went down afew of the dark branches when I saw it. Sitting there nibbling at the tree leaves was a GREEN hare. It was by far the strangest looking bunny I have ever seen.

Could this be Elmerf or maybe a relatiive? I would think that if the rabbit had wings Bilbo may have mentioned it, but perhaps he didn't think it was important or maybe he didnt notice. My real question is how on earth did a hare get up a tree? Maybe that would explain the possibility of wings? This also answers what the mirkwood hares look like and what they eat.

I do hope I didn't answer all the questions or else there will be no point to my thread.

Cheers
~*Wilwa*~

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I have sat in trees before but I am not winged.

[wilwarin538]

I know Eomer but hares dont have thumbs so how could it climb?

[Oddwen]

Why Wilwarin, I do believe that you have found evidence of the Tree Hares. The reason that they aren't mentioned anywhere else is that they were gone by the time of LotR and the War of the Ring. (Much like the "Tra-la-la-lally" tree elves.)

But Oddwen I don't understand how that could possibly be talking about Elmerf?

Nay, not Elmerf himself, but his offspring.

And has anyone found evidence that hares have long, pointed ears? I mean, yes they do now, but did they then and there?

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

I think the hare was winged. Other opinions? (elronds_daughter)

I think it was not winged.

I have not yet read this Unstarted Tales yet (perhaps it got lost on its way to the Philippines), but from the quote Oddwen provided, the wind speed is clearly metaphorical.

Besides, if hares had wings, why then couldn't they fly to save themselves?

. . . and many hyenas, lemmings, and hares fell to their doom with Aragorn on the steep banks of the Entlaundromat . . .

Purple Book

I'll get back to Wilwa's question when I have read the Purple Book again. It's been so long since I last read it.

EDIT: Wilwa, Yosmitë was Elmerf's . . . partner. A weird name, I know, but it was named by the Dark Elves who gave it to Glorfindel as such. In their tongue, I think it means "varmint". Or something like that.

[wilwarin538]

Thank you Nilpaurion for clearing that up. I must not have read your post very thouroughly.

Hyenas and lemmings, interesting.

[AbercrombieOfRohan]

In regard to elmerf's disposition as a father, do you think that it could be possibly related to King arthur and Mordred? If you look at it logically Tolkien has a very many references to King Arthur in his books. Avalon and Valinor so on and so forth.
The Lost Tails mentions the hatred between Elmerf and his son. Elmerf (if we are assuming that he came from a long line of hares) would have felt the stability of his nation and position as Supreme ruling Pet of Mirkwood threatened if a strange hare from a distant land came and presented evidence that he was the rightful 'hare' of Elmerf. He probably was a very downtrodden hare being the pet of Legolas, (I support the argument that Elmerf was probably a slightly ugly hare given the fact that Legolas wouldn't have wanted a prettier pet than himself.) and would have taken it to heart that this foreign hare came and presented himself as hare.
I mean Elmerf had worked so hard from keeping his domain safe from the evil hares of Dol Guldur to the south that he would have consulted his council right away. Then the council probably would've brought in a fortune teller because as we all know, hares are very superstitous. The fortune teller would've then prophesied the downfall of Elmerf. He would've been reminded of the poor unfortunate hares that lost their lives in the downfall of Numenor, to whom he was distantly related and he wouldn't have wanted to bring such a tragedy to his people. He would've therefore done what any honarable hare would've, because above all else I believe that Elmerf was an honarable hare, he challenged his son (name? I seem to have forgotten) to a duel.
Here I don't really know the specifics of hare fighting styles, dependent on whether or not they have wings, this can be discussed. But after that we all know what happens, Elmerf was taken by Yosmite to the Holy Isle to be cared for by the Valar, namely Orome as he was the creator of hares, and to return when the hares of Middle-Earth desperately needed him. Now I'm pretty sure this happened during that sticky transitional period after the ring was destroyed and maybe even into the beginning of the fourth age, but I might be mistaken. Elmerf's son then took control over his smaller band of hares and they moved into the south of Mirkwood and gained prominence over a large domain, where there ancestors are still living today.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Although I wonder: why would the Valar accepted Elmerf into ther own realm, considering:

. . . it has been told that the culture of alcohol and rowdiness which dominated Mirkwood (read The Hobbit) so influenced Elmerf that he turned into a true rogue, a devilish rapscallion . . . (Eomer)

Then again, Ainur are weird.

And prone to mood swings.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Yeah, that's not too unlikely. Mandos was a bit of a rascal in his free time too, don't you know?

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by AbercrombieOfRohan

his son (name? I seem to have forgotten)

I don't believe he had a name Abercrombie, maybe that's why you forgot it. But I'm sure , since he became a hare ruler that he must have had a name and Im sure someone will be able to find it.

I do have one question though. Did Yosmite stay with Elmerf or return to Mirkwood to be with her son? I also wonder if Caerwen, Elmerf's twin sister may have tried to take Elmerf's place instead of his nameless son, I think she did try something and that may be the cause of her being shunned to guard a cave.

Thoughts???

~*Wilwa*~

[AbercrombieOfRohan]

Come now we really must find a name for this usurping hare. I need to inscribe it into the annals of the Hare History of Mirkwood.