"But One and not the Greatest"

[Tuor of Gondolin]

There seem to be two interpretations here of
"yet it was but one and not the greatest of the hosts that Mordor now sent forth"

a---That there were larger armies sent elsewhere or kept in Mordor
b---That the army of the Witch King joined with a larger army (presumably coming from the Black Gate).

I've always read it to be option "b" above, given presumed logistical limitations of sending forces from Minas Morgul, though I suppose it's open to interpretation.

As for dwarves not involved in fighting in the war of the Ring, they were crucially so in Erebor.

[Earendilyon]

Originally Posted by Rinfanawen

This battle was fought against the armies of Men and Men alone...aside from a few small Hobbits. The Dwarves were not there either, because the matter did not involve Dwarves at that time. We cannot put all the blame on the Elves just because they happened to be a stronger force. The Elves made their choice, and they decided that it was not their battle to fight.

In essence, this War was of course very much the Elves' matter: they started making Rings of Power and were lured into this by Annatar/Sauron. If they would have looked through his "Lord of Gifts" disguise, the One Ring wouldn't have been forged and this whole War of the Ring wouldn't have ben necessary.

Originally Posted by Gurthang

But I still beleive that if Sauron had not spread his forces over five fronts(Erebor, Mirkwood, Lothlorien, Minas Tirith, Rohan), but instead had concentrated on one at a time, he would have had much more favorable results.

Maybe you've got a point here. Several dictator in history have found out they couldn't fight on too much fronts at the same time without loosing eventually: Napoleon, Kaiser Wilhelm II, Hitler, Hirohito ...

[Kuruharan]

Just out of curiosity, could somebody point me in the direction of a reference that says that the Elven population was increasing or at least maintaining itself in the Third Age?

As for the armies marching from the Black Gate to join the army from Minas Morgul, note that there is no mention of Easterlings and Haradrim (with their handy-dandy oliphaunts in tow) marching from Minas Morgul. Indeed, I have a hard time imagining that Sauron would be able to keep anything but orcs there because Tolkien gives the impression that any men in the immediate area tended to go quite mad. Some troops came up from the south to join him, but it is likely that the large numbers of Easterlings and Haradrim that appeared at Pelennor were the same ones that Frodo saw at the Black Gate. Note Gandalf’s message to Denethor…

The isle (Cair Andros) has fallen. Another army is come from the Black Gate, crossing from the north-east.

Rinfanawen

think that the Elves went through the same decision as the Hobbits and the Dwarves of Middle Earth. The battle was being fought on Man's ground. The Hobbits, as they more than often chose, wished to ignore all business outside of the Shire for that main purpose. It was outside of the Shire. The matters did not concern them.

This battle was fought against the armies of Men and Men alone...aside from a few small Hobbits. The Dwarves were not there either, because the matter did not involve Dwarves at that time. We cannot put all the blame on the Elves just because they happened to be a stronger force. The Elves made their choice, and they decided that it was not their battle to fight.

While I understand what you are trying to say, and agree with it in a way, I also concurrently disagree with your statement.

It was not that Elves and Dwarves were indifferent to the affairs of the rest of the world. I think that Legolas puts it best.

’Now why did not we wish for some of our own kinsfolk, Legolas?’
Legolas stood before the gate and turned his bright eyes away north and east, and his fair face was troubled. ‘I do not think that any would come,’ he answered. ‘They have no need to ride to war; war already marches on their own lands.’

Everyone was under attack.

Next Point: While I agree with Gurthang’s overall strategic sense, I have to echo Tuor of Gondolin’s logistical considerations. I think that Sauron sent as many troops against Minas Tirith (both from Morgul and from the Black Gate) as he could afford to feed.

Third Point: I believe that there is a general misconception that Sauron’s strongest armies remained inside Mordor prior to the Battle of the Morannon. I think this may not have been exactly the case. Gandalf confirms that Sauron still possessed large quantities of troops at that time. My question lies in the area of what use Sauron was making of those troops. My understanding of the text is that Sauron had to essentially strip his land bare of troops in order to assemble the army that fought before the Teeth. My belief is that those troops were his garrisons and newly arrived contingents that had not been properly organized into a field army. While this may have created an army that was numerically greater than any other he put into the field; this was not a field army in Sauron’s original planning. It was an ad hoc amalgamation that Sauron gathered to meet an emergency.

This does not mean that I think that Sauron had shot his bolt in the war. It does mean that, conventionally speaking, the West had probably bought itself a respite of several weeks or even months by their victory at Pelennor. I think that Sauron would have gathered a new army (or two), but that would have taken some time. I also doubt that he would have stripped all his garrisons to do so. This brings the urgency (and brilliance) of Gandalf’s scheme to the fore. The last thing the West wanted was to have Sauron turn inward to regroup at that moment. By doing what they did, Sauron had to “empty his lands” and reduce his odds of catching Frodo and Sam (even though Sauron almost did without knowing how close he came.)

Final Technical Point: The troops that attacked Lorien came from Dol Guldur. Considering the fact that the troops that attacked the Woodland Realm were also from Dol Guldur indicates that (a) Sauron maintained a large army there (b) the Elves were not numerous in either place (c) all of the above. My personal belief is all of the above. I would assume that troops from Dol Guldur would qualify under the large umbrella of “armies Mordor sent forth” even though they were not arriving directly from there.

[Tuor of Gondolin]

Originally posted by Kuruharan
"conventionally speaking, the West had probably bought itself a respite of several weeks or even months by their victory at Pelennor."
---------------------
Exactly. I think Gandalf somewhat underestimated the relative strength of the West after the Pelennor Fields. Given some weeks a) Cair Andros would be cleared b) significant reinforcements would come from Rohan (remember the rushed mobilization and forces left in Rohan for protection) c) South Gondor forces would have arrived. Despite Tolkien's views that the Western forces could not have ultimately prevailed, assuming the Ring was still thought lost, sunk in the ocean by The Council, etc. was at least a "balance of power" all that impossible to conceive, given the defeat of the Corsairs, and repulse and/or standoffs in Eriador and Rhovannion? Gandalf pretty much cancels out the intimidation of the remaining nazgul, and the oliphaunts are pretty much shot as a new force (apparently handled in much the way Alexander the Great did with Darius's chariots).

Plus the concept of an at least limited offensive, somewhat stonger and more cautious and creative then that necessitated to help Frodo would seem to have been possible, given the significant cavalry advantage of the Western forces, perhaps even a semi-blockade of Mordor. (Echoes of Noldor First Age strategy, but without a curse hampering the good guys)?

[Mithalwen]

I would have thought that the Elven population would almost certainly have been dwindling through the third age....because of various factors.... elves are immortal so they don't have the same biological imperative to reproduce that mortals do...and by transmitting life they diminish themselves... so they have few children .... only the earliest elves had large (relatively) families - Feanor being quite exceptional with his 7 sons.

They avoid raising children in times of strife and if a spouse is killed they may not take another... And I always got the feeling that the longer they spent in Middle Earth and the wearier they got the less likely they were to reproduce ......immortality is a big thing to "inflict" on another in those circumstances - the elves still regard death as a gift... I mean there are no mentions of Elf-children at Rivendell or Lorien are there? I know that doesn't mean everything since you also get the impression that Arwen and Galadriel (and her maidens) are the only elf women left and that clearly can't be true ..... I always wondered if the fact that Elrond's children all being unmarried when it was usual for elves to marry almost on reaching adulthood was partly due to a lack of potential spouses in that generation..

Thranduil lost 2/3 of his army at the last alliance and there could not for the physiological reasons be a baby boom .... Even given that Thranduil's folk were least likely to pass over sea I don't think the numbers would have recovered quickly ..... and the battle of 5 armies also caused losses ... Elsewhere I think the populations would definitely have diminished .... Lindon never recovered from the Last Alliance - I never got the impression that the havens was much more than a small outpost - so many leave ..... and still there are smaller conflicts..

Not scientific but this is my reading - I think the elves disengagement from the wider world is partly due to diminishing numbers ..... 4 communities alone remain 2 of which are surely very small indeed.....

[Gil-Galad]

The biggest chance for Elves would Be Lorien and Mirkwood, seeing they have the biggest of the elvish population in ME, not to mention there probaly stronger, Sauron wanted to distract them...but it failed with Battle under the Trees where Celeborn and Thranduil met in battle...i wouldn't mind seeing that in the movies...