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Old 08-10-2004, 08:23 PM   #1
Fingolfin II
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Fingolfin II has just left Hobbiton.
Quote:
'Few now remember them,' Tom murmured, 'yet still some go wandering, sons of forgotten kings walking in loneliness, guarding from evil things folk that are heedless.'
The hobbits did not understand his words, but as he spoke they had a vision as it were of a great expanse of years behind them, like a vast shadowy plain over which there strode shapes of Men, tall and grim with bright swords, and last came one with a star on his brow.
Here we see Tom uncharacteristically serious as he delivers a bit of history to the hobbits of Westernesse and those who dwelt in Middle-Earth before hobbits came- tying in with Gildor's 'But it is not your own Shire. Others dwelt here before hobbits were...' and his giving to the hobbits of the Numenorean blades turns out to be one of the best things he did. As well as this, we also see that Bombadil has the ability to conjure visions through mere speech, as well as singing.

Also this quote, as Estelyn said, gives us our (the hobbits') first sight of the Dunedain Rangers and especially Aragorn. The star on his brow is very significant because it is obviously the Star of Elendil and shows his inheritance of the Kingship of Gondor and Arnor. I made the bit 'sons of forgotten kings walking in loneliness' bold because it struck me as similar to what Aragorn said to Gilraen in The Tale of Arwen and Aragorn (Appendix A; V)-

Quote:
'Then bitter will my days be, and I will walk in the wild alone,' said Aragorn.
'That indeed will be your fate,' said Gilraen....
An interesting thing that just occurred to me was that if you were to ask, "Who did the hobbits see first; Aragorn or Halbarad?" the answer might possibly be Halbarad!

When the sad time has come for the hobbit's and Tom Bombadil to part, it is interesting that Bombadil says:

Quote:
'No, I hope not tonight,' answered Tom Bombadil; 'nor perhaps the next day. But do not trust my guess; for I cannot tell for certain. Out east my knowledge fails. Tom is not master of Riders from the Black Land far beyond his country.'
This quote shows Tom's unsurety (is that such a word?) as to what course of action to take next outside his borders and the movements of the Enemy, while the next quote emphasises his blunt refusal to pass the borders of his land-

Quote:
Tom's country ends here: he will not pass the borders.
Tom has his house to mind, and Goldberry is waiting!
Tom's reluctance to go no further is striking, as well as is his admittance to having little knowledge of the land beyond his borders- in this respect, he is very similar to Sam who knows the geography of the area within a 20 mile radius of Hobbiton very well, but that is his limit. He also admits that he has no power over the Black Riders, though he has proved that he is able to resist evil (by not becoming invisible when he put the Ring on; and indeed, not wanting to keep it for himself). This is also important because he is able to overcome the Barrow-Wight and Old Man Willow, which can be considered 'evil'; however they are evil elements of Nature, whereas the Nazgul are not subject to Tom. So here, to me, it seems that Tom's power and Tom himself is restricted to his country where he is 'master' and outside of it he has little or no power.

On the subject of what Bombadil is, I have finally found the truth, compliments of Samwise Gamgee-

Quote:
'He's a caution and no mistake.'
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Last edited by Fingolfin II; 08-12-2004 at 09:41 PM.
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Old 08-11-2004, 05:45 AM   #2
davem
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davem is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.davem is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Anyone have any thoughts on Merry's dream experience of being killed by a spear in an attack by the men of Carn Dum? Is this due to some kind of 'psychic' connection with the original inhabitant of the Barrow, or something about the Barrow Downs. And why does only Merry have this kind of experience? Its almost like the kind of thing people undergoing a past life regression come up with,yet I don't think that's what Tolkien was implying here. It is probably one of the strangest events in the whole story if its a 'memory' (for want of a better term) of an actual event, because how to account for it?

Of course, it could just have been a fantasy, based on what must have been an incredibly stressful night, yet, how would Merry know all that ancient history, or even the name 'Carn Dum' & that they were involved in a battle on that spot?

Its almost like two periods of history coalesce - one overlaying the other - the attack by the men of Carn Dum & Merry awakening outside the Barrow. This is very like what Tolkien does in his two time travel stories - the Lost Road & the Notion Club Papers, where characters from diferent time periods are psychically linked. It creates a kind of living link back through history.
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Old 08-11-2004, 06:09 AM   #3
Estelyn Telcontar
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I've always felt that that vision of Merry's was connected with the jewelry that he wore, and looking at the passage more closely, I noticed the mention of
Quote:
...the golden circlet that had slipped over one eye.
Did that cause the 'slip' in his sight? When he comes to himself again, it is with:
Quote:
'No, no!' he said, opening his eyes.
(bolding mine in both quotes)

In short, the jewelry was affected by being in the Barrow, so it had some magical properties, I think. When Tom takes it out and lays it on the grass, it breaks the spell.

But the question remains, why Merry, why not Pippin (who was more often the one with a sense of supernatural 'sight')? Sam I can understand - his prosaic nature gave him the ability to sleep ('in deep content, if logs are contented') in Tom's house while the others dreamt.
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Old 08-11-2004, 06:25 AM   #4
davem
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Originally Posted by Esty
In short, the jewelry was affected by being in the Barrow, so it had some magical properties, I think. When Tom takes it out and lays it on the grass, it breaks the spell.
Which (possibly) explains the how, but not the what or the why. Is it a genuine memory, or a fantasy, & if a genuine memory of an actual event, then its at least as mysterious for it to be communicated through a piece of jewelry, as through the earth itself, or through some kind of psychic link between Merry & the man who was killed. This link across time is what I find fascinating, whatever means is used to achieve it.
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Old 08-11-2004, 07:01 AM   #5
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Quote:
but not the what or the why
I always had a notion that houseless fëar dwelling in the Barrows where trying to take over and posses the hröar of the hobbits. Whether it was done through jewelry or incantation, seems of less importance to yours truly (though I lean over to incantation), but it answers 'why' question

I certainly remember reading some passage in HoME series which implied such a possibility for 'faded' elven spirits, and thus warned of dangers of communicating with these. I can not provide direct quote right away, but promise to make a search for it as soon as I find the time and reach my books (unless Aiwendil shows up before that and takes me out of my difficulties )
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Old 08-11-2004, 11:22 AM   #6
Mithalwen
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2 suggestions on" why Merry?"

a, Merry in some ways the most academic of the hobbits within his own sphere - I know he is not a elvish scholar as Frodo is under Bilbo's influence - but although at that point he is an insignificant member of the fellowship picked for friendship not strength of knowledge, at Rivendell he studies maps off his own bat, he knows Shire history (he has the history of pipeweed at his fingertips when he meets Theoden", when he returns from his adventure he writes "Scholarly" works rather than "just" recounting events. He is the mastermind of the conspiracy .. . even before the quest starts his horizons are much wider and his mind much more open than the average hobbit's..

b, He is a Bucklander, which in ME terms represents the "Celtic" fringe of the Shire - the Celtic (Wales, Ireland, Scotland & Cornwall) fringe of the British Isles is richer in folklore and legend than it's heart even now... Bucklanders know things that other Shirefolk do not, they are closer to the outside world ... he is very aware of the menace of the Old Forest. Buckland is that much closer to the downs...it is quite possible some garbled version of the history has passed into the folklore of the region SO it is possible that Merry has been more exposed to ancient Legends and is more "tuned in" to them ...
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Old 08-11-2004, 02:20 PM   #7
Lalwendë
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Lalwendë is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Lalwendë is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Merry's recollection of his dream is peculiar. Both the dream itself and the way he relates it. He appears to drop into a trance-like state, as though he had been hypnotised and something has triggered the trance again. This could be the truth of the matter, that the hobbits have been hypnotised in some way, whether by use of magic, incantation or even by the wight burning something which has given off soporific fumes as is possible if you look at what Frodo sees when he wakes up in the Barrow:

Quote:
he noticed all at once that the darkness was slowly giving way: a pale greenish light was growing round him.
I think it is likely that Merry might have heard of "The men of Carn-Dum", after all, as Mithalwen says, he is a Bucklander, and he certainly seems to know about the Old Forest. If he had indeed been in a trance then this is interesting as half-heard tales and facts can often emerge during these altered states of mind.

There could also be something in this sentence, which is what happens after Frodo attacks the wight:

Quote:
Frodo fell forward over Merry, and Merry's face felt cold.
Could Frodo's stumble have affected Merry's dream, in the way that thunderstorms at night often cause people to dream of explosions? But personally, I do prefer the more supernatural explanation!
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