The animals in ME - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Sandro · 08-13-2004, 11:19 PM

Great point, Ka! The Egyptians revered the cats (even built a necropolis for them), scarabs, falcons, cows, etc. They feared such animals as snakes, crocodiles, and jackels. respected, but feared. Thus the revered ones were "good" and the feared ones "bad". Same thing with Tolkien.

Plus, Tolkien never says wolves are evil. He says that the Wargs are a malicious and violent breed of wolves. If my memory serves me, no one is ever attacked by wolvee, just wargs. some things are bred to be evil. Not all the Eagles were good, as mentioned in The Hobbit. Not all the Ravens were bad. Some animals, such as the Mumakil, were just put to evil means.

Lobelia · 08-14-2004, 02:49 AM

Re: cats. I think Tolkien's reference to cats as the fauna of Mordor was pretty much tongue in cheek - someone had asked permission to use LOTR names for a line of Siamese cats. I have never owned one, but a friend of mind keeps Siamese cats and from what she says of them, she might agree! You really don't want to get on their wrong side.

Besides, can't you just see the Dark Lord with a cat on his lap?

(Assuming he was embodied at the time.)

Mithalwen · 08-14-2004, 09:58 AM

A white one maybe "I have been expecting you, Mr Baggins...." Sauron AKA Ernst Stravro Blofeld.....

Evisse the Blue · 08-16-2004, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Besides, can't you just see the Dark Lord with a cat on his lap?

I just got an image of Sauron as Dr. Evil (from Austin Powers)

Cats as conected to evil: You know how cats prefer certain places over others? Well, it's said that the places that the cats prefer to curl up in are charged with negative energy. Before you dismiss this with a laugh: I got lots of example of cats hanging around persons who were sick more than around healthy persons, and as close to the afflicted part as possible. Also, my friend's cat who is usually very wild comes runing to jump on my friend's lap whenever she's angry or arguing or raising her voice. Taking notice of this, she started using a special harsh voice which is reserved only for the cat, when she wants to call her. Cats are weird creatures. I for one don't hold it against Tolkien that he saw them as inhabitants of Mordor. He must have had some experience with cats.

Mithalwen · 08-16-2004, 12:51 PM

I must admit I missed the cats from mordor thing.... but his cat poem in "bombadil " is nice ...but Queen Beruthiel and her cats.... familiars.... maybe ...

I would say that the English are fonder of cats than most... but I wonder... since Gondor represents Italy ..... do cats have any particular negative associations for the Italians ?

Tuor of Gondolin · 08-16-2004, 04:21 PM

"I just got an image of Sauron as Dr. Evil (from Austin Powers) "
----------------------------
So who's the Witch King, Scotty or Mini-me?

THE Ka · 08-16-2004, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuor of Gondolin

"I just got an image of Sauron as Dr. Evil (from Austin Powers) "
----------------------------
So who's the Witch King, Scotty or Mini-me?

Hmm, this question really depends if the reader has seen Goldmember (personally one of my favorites...). If you remember, mini me is later in the movie "releaved" of his office as being Dr.Evil's favorite creation, thus mini me joins up with Austin. Scotty on the other hand, seems to be a flower waiting to bloom (or more to the point, a bomb waiting to explode, that poor boy had emotional problems...) anyway, scotty later becomes Dr.evils favorite and co-ruler. Another very important thing is, at the end of the movie Austin and Dr.Evil (a.k.a "Douggy") learn that they are brothers. Even though this fact was stated, Scotty refused to accept this. Mini-me on the other hand, did.

So, hmm... who really is the Leader of the Nazgul in this situation?

My best asumption is that it is Mini-me, because If you remember the Nazgul were bound to Sauron's will as well as the ring's. And since Dr.evil and Sauron are being displayed in comparison, Mini-me would be the leader of the Nazgul. (Mini-me accepted that Austin and Dr.Evil were brothers and "followed" Dr.Evil.

Wow. Who ever knew that you could make an Austin Powers movie seem so, so... Philiosophical?!

Nevermind, that was a waste of typing...

(you can start to boo and make other rude noises now.)

THE Ka · 08-16-2004, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evisse the Blue

I just got an image of Sauron as Dr. Evil (from Austin Powers)

Cats as conected to evil: You know how cats prefer certain places over others? Well, it's said that the places that the cats prefer to curl up in are charged with negative energy. Before you dismiss this with a laugh: I got lots of example of cats hanging around persons who were sick more than around healthy persons, and as close to the afflicted part as possible. Also, my friend's cat who is usually very wild comes runing to jump on my friend's lap whenever she's angry or arguing or raising her voice. Taking notice of this, she started using a special harsh voice which is reserved only for the cat, when she wants to call her. Cats are weird creatures. I for one don't hold it against Tolkien that he saw them as inhabitants of Mordor. He must have had some experience with cats.

Cats liking negative energy? (don't worry, i dabble in the Metaphysical myself

) With that in mind, my cat might have a reversed personality and aura. Whenever i am sick my cat will run off and hide in the back of my closet (preferably on the clean laundry) when i am healthy and or ok, my cat will think nothing except plopping herself down in my lap. As for yelling, both my cat and dog run for cover... (simply because i'm angry and might be throwing something.)

But, as for my brother's cat, he seems to be the embodiment of Sauron himself... Very self-centered and two faced. My brother can no longer bring him over because our cats will play cat "armageddon" in my living room. my cat absolutely will not tolerate my brother's cat in any way. ( She sulks off when my brother tries to pet her.) When i come over to my brother's house, it is quiet different. His cat will follow me around and seem to play with affections, purring and rubbing on my ankles one minute, hissing and chacing me down the hall the next.

Either that or simply because both my dog and cat grew up together and both good and bad qualities rubbed off and on betix them.

08-13-2004, 11:19 PM	#1
Sandro Pile O'Bones Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Always here, never there. Posts: 25	Great point, Ka! The Egyptians revered the cats (even built a necropolis for them), scarabs, falcons, cows, etc. They feared such animals as snakes, crocodiles, and jackels. respected, but feared. Thus the revered ones were "good" and the feared ones "bad". Same thing with Tolkien. Plus, Tolkien never says wolves are evil. He says that the Wargs are a malicious and violent breed of wolves. If my memory serves me, no one is ever attacked by wolvee, just wargs. some things are bred to be evil. Not all the Eagles were good, as mentioned in The Hobbit. Not all the Ravens were bad. Some animals, such as the Mumakil, were just put to evil means. __________________ "It is a strange fate that we should suffer so much fear and doubt over so small a thing. Such a little thing." -Boromir, Captain of Gondor

08-14-2004, 09:58 AM	#3
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,460	A white one maybe "I have been expecting you, Mr Baggins...." Sauron AKA Ernst Stravro Blofeld..... __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

08-16-2004, 12:51 PM	#5
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,460	I must admit I missed the cats from mordor thing.... but his cat poem in "bombadil " is nice ...but Queen Beruthiel and her cats.... familiars.... maybe ... I would say that the English are fonder of cats than most... but I wonder... since Gondor represents Italy ..... do cats have any particular negative associations for the Italians ? __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

08-16-2004, 04:21 PM	#6
Tuor of Gondolin Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Pennsylvania, WtR, passed Sarn Gebir: Above the rapids (1239 miles) BtR, passed Black Rider Stopping Place (31 miles) Posts: 1,548	"I just got an image of Sauron as Dr. Evil (from Austin Powers) " ---------------------------- So who's the Witch King, Scotty or Mini-me? __________________ Aure Entuluva!

08-14-2004, 02:49 AM	#2
Lobelia Wight Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 150	Re: cats. I think Tolkien's reference to cats as the fauna of Mordor was pretty much tongue in cheek - someone had asked permission to use LOTR names for a line of Siamese cats. I have never owned one, but a friend of mind keeps Siamese cats and from what she says of them, she might agree! You really don't want to get on their wrong side. Besides, can't you just see the Dark Lord with a cat on his lap? (Assuming he was embodied at the time.)