*Feanor,Turin and the Second Prophecy of Mandos*

[Fingolfin II]

Nice little addendum, Findegil.

You said:

VE-21 The Second Prophecy of Mandos
A rumour was whispered among all the Men of the West, that Mandos spoke this words in prophecy, when the Gods sat in judgement in Valinor. When the world is old and the Powers grow weary, ...

But I was wondering, would all the Men of the West know about the rumour of the prophecy of Mandos, or just the Numenoreans? You're probably talking about the Numenoreans when you say all Men of the West, but it could also be perceived to be all the 'good' Edain, and some stayed in Middle-Earth. A proposed way to overcome this I think is to get rid of the 'all' so then we simply have-

VE-21 The Second Prophecy of Mandos
A rumour was whispered among the Men (or Elves?) of the West, that Mandos spoke these words in prophecy, when the Gods sat in judgement in Valinor. When the world is old...

[Findegil]

I would be possible to skip the "all" but, in the original it were all Elves of the West which would incloud all those that lingered still in Middle-Earth. Thus in the original the knowledge was not restricted from Middle-Earth and I would not do so in our version. We have in addition not in any way made clear to which date the Words reffer. Thus it could reffer to the later ages when Numenor was no more. With all that I can't seen a forcing reason to restrit the rumor to the numenorens by skiping "all".

I don't understand what you would like to suggest with the addition of "(or Elves?)".

Respectfully
Findegil

[Fingolfin II]

The (or Elves?) bit was just because I'm unsure about whether the prophecy will be rumoured amongst Men, or the Elves of Tol Eressea.

[Findegil]

That is clearly not the case. As discussed above, if we want to hold the prophecy at all, we must make it a manish tradition.

Respectfully
Findegil

[Maédhros]

I would be possible to skip the "all" but, in the original it were all Elves of the West which would incloud all those that lingered still in Middle-Earth. Thus in the original the knowledge was not restricted from Middle-Earth and I would not do so in our version. We have in addition not in any way made clear to which date the Words reffer. Thus it could reffer to the later ages when Numenor was no more. With all that I can't seen a forcing reason to restrit the rumor to the numenorens by skiping "all".

I would skip the all just based on the fact that by not saying all, we are not saying per se that it was not know to all Men, that is left ambiguous.
And besides that it could be argued that there were different traditions among Men because of the fact of the different Houses of Men that established themselves in Númenor.
From Morgoth's Ring: Athrabeth Finrod Ah Andreth

Another wise-woman, though of a different House and different tradition, was Adanel sister of Hador. She married Belemir of the House of Bëor, grandson of Belen second son of Bëor the Old, to whom the wisdom of Bëor (for Bëor himself had been one of the wise) was chiefly transmitted. And there had been great love between Belemir and Andreth his younger kinswoman (the daughter of his second cousin Boromir), and she dwelt long in his house, and so learned much of the lore also of the 'people of Marach' and the House of Hador from Adanel.

Good to have you aboard Fingolfin II.

[Findegil]

After some thought about it, I must admiss that my repley was bit to much counter-argumentation. It is clearly reasonable to skip the "all". The cause for it is to be unspecific and that is desireable all the way. Thus if nobody will step up for it the "all" is gone. But I would like to point out that this should still not restrict the meaning to the Numenoreans as the only who know about the prophecy.

Respectfully
Findegil

[Aiwendil]

I have no problem with:

A <BT rumour {of his words} was whispered among the {Elves}[Men] of the West>, that thus spake Mandos in prophecy, when the Gods sat in judgement in Valinor {, and the rumour of his words was whispered among all the Elves of the West}. When the world is old and the Powers grow weary, ...

I removed "all". Also, I don't see a pressing need to replace "thus spake" with "spoke these words". Does anyone think that "thus spake" is awkward now that it is prefaced?