Grieg for Gimli, Schumann for Saruman - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Encaitare · 08-31-2004, 03:42 PM

Oh, now that I think of it I agree, Canon could definitely be used for the Havens. The sorrow of parting, followed up by the eventually peace and happiness Frodo and his companions find. Mithalwen is right, the positive resolution is very important -- it's what keeps the piece from being too dark.

Mithalwen · 09-01-2004, 01:07 PM

Well you inspired the thought really when you were talking about it before .... it is funny how one chord can change the mood.... although the canon is usually played without it's gigue ... that chord does give the sense of it being the end of a movement not the final end of the work ..... again quite appropriate for the havens ...as is the interplay of the instruments ..... the harmony ...there is tension but no discord no argument .... I might almost say that 3 violins could be the hobbits and Gandalf the cello holding it all together ... btu perhaps that is a step too far..

Encaitare · 09-01-2004, 01:18 PM

I don't think it's a step too far, I like that idea. Which three hobbits would you say? Frodo, Sam, and Bilbo?

Quote:

there is tension but no discord no argument

Very true. Each instrument is equally important and plays in accordance with the theme, without competition, as though they have this deeper understanding of one another as the characters truly do by the time they reach the Havens.

Mithalwen · 09-02-2004, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Encaitare

I don't think it's a step too far, I like that idea. Which three hobbits would you say? Frodo, Sam, and Bilbo?

I couldn't quite decide ... Maybe Frodo, Sam and Merry&Pippin ... who more or less speak with one voice here...

Encaitare · 09-02-2004, 06:29 PM

That could work, too. In my mind, though, I think it's still Frodo, Sam, and Bilbo, because they are the ones who sailed (although not then for Sam.)

Mithalwen · 09-03-2004, 10:46 AM

Well my other theory excluded not only Bilbo ( who is obviously so near death anyway) but also Gandalf .... in this scenario the cello continuo is Frodo, quiet, calm and decided on his course of action and the three violins Sam, Merry and Pippin who are stunned,attempt to persuade, grieve and then fall into acceptance and harmony in the last bars... I guess that may work better....

Encaitare · 09-03-2004, 11:56 AM

Ooh, I like that one better! I will never listen to the Canon the same way again! ... In fact I'll listen to it right now.

Yes, this seems to be working. At the beginning, the cello (Frodo) begins the theme and the violins (Sam, Merry, Pippin) play the same thing. Then the theme splits and they play in harmony, which is perhaps the friendship they all share, showing how they have become closer and now understand one another better. Then one or two violins break off and play the slightly faster accompaniment, which could be the surprise and shock felt when Frodo reveals that he's leaving. When it gets quiet after this, it is Frodo explaining why he must leave. It then loudens once more, perhaps protest against these reasons, but then it becomes a little quieter and the notes are longer, showing that Frodo knows what he must do and cannot be swayed. Then it adopts a sadder sound, which is acceptance. From this point, you can certainly envision Frodo going to each of his friends, exhanging embraces and farewells, last of all Sam, which is when the one violin goes up higher than the rest, very emotionally. As the violin goes down to join the rest, it seems that Sam feels great grief but knows that what his master is doing is for the best and he must "remain whole" for the time and fall back into the mays of the Shire. The final chord is Frodo stepping onto the boat, knowing that he will find peace, and his friends know it too and do not wish to hinder him.

I know there are many variations done on this piece, so I am just going with the one I have. This one's got a harpsichord in it, beginning the piece and then just playing the chords in the background for the rest of it. Perhaps the reassuring sound of the harpsichord could be Gandalf, who provided an aid to them all in their adventures.

A friend of mine from band has this piece as a flute quartet... now with my new perspective on it I have to find her and demand the sheet music!

09-01-2004, 01:07 PM	#2
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,460	Well you inspired the thought really when you were talking about it before .... it is funny how one chord can change the mood.... although the canon is usually played without it's gigue ... that chord does give the sense of it being the end of a movement not the final end of the work ..... again quite appropriate for the havens ...as is the interplay of the instruments ..... the harmony ...there is tension but no discord no argument .... I might almost say that 3 violins could be the hobbits and Gandalf the cello holding it all together ... btu perhaps that is a step too far.. __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

09-03-2004, 10:46 AM	#6
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,460	Well my other theory excluded not only Bilbo ( who is obviously so near death anyway) but also Gandalf .... in this scenario the cello continuo is Frodo, quiet, calm and decided on his course of action and the three violins Sam, Merry and Pippin who are stunned,attempt to persuade, grieve and then fall into acceptance and harmony in the last bars... I guess that may work better.... __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

08-31-2004, 03:42 PM	#1
Encaitare Bittersweet Symphony Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: On the jolly starship Enterprise Posts: 1,814	Oh, now that I think of it I agree, Canon could definitely be used for the Havens. The sorrow of parting, followed up by the eventually peace and happiness Frodo and his companions find. Mithalwen is right, the positive resolution is very important -- it's what keeps the piece from being too dark.

09-02-2004, 06:29 PM	#5
Encaitare Bittersweet Symphony Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: On the jolly starship Enterprise Posts: 1,814	That could work, too. In my mind, though, I think it's still Frodo, Sam, and Bilbo, because they are the ones who sailed (although not then for Sam.)

09-03-2004, 11:56 AM	#7
Encaitare Bittersweet Symphony Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: On the jolly starship Enterprise Posts: 1,814	Ooh, I like that one better! I will never listen to the Canon the same way again! ... In fact I'll listen to it right now. Yes, this seems to be working. At the beginning, the cello (Frodo) begins the theme and the violins (Sam, Merry, Pippin) play the same thing. Then the theme splits and they play in harmony, which is perhaps the friendship they all share, showing how they have become closer and now understand one another better. Then one or two violins break off and play the slightly faster accompaniment, which could be the surprise and shock felt when Frodo reveals that he's leaving. When it gets quiet after this, it is Frodo explaining why he must leave. It then loudens once more, perhaps protest against these reasons, but then it becomes a little quieter and the notes are longer, showing that Frodo knows what he must do and cannot be swayed. Then it adopts a sadder sound, which is acceptance. From this point, you can certainly envision Frodo going to each of his friends, exhanging embraces and farewells, last of all Sam, which is when the one violin goes up higher than the rest, very emotionally. As the violin goes down to join the rest, it seems that Sam feels great grief but knows that what his master is doing is for the best and he must "remain whole" for the time and fall back into the mays of the Shire. The final chord is Frodo stepping onto the boat, knowing that he will find peace, and his friends know it too and do not wish to hinder him. I know there are many variations done on this piece, so I am just going with the one I have. This one's got a harpsichord in it, beginning the piece and then just playing the chords in the background for the rest of it. Perhaps the reassuring sound of the harpsichord could be Gandalf, who provided an aid to them all in their adventures. A friend of mine from band has this piece as a flute quartet... now with my new perspective on it I have to find her and demand the sheet music!