LotR -- Book 1 - Chapter 11 - A Knife in the Dark

[davem]

Originally Posted by Child

It is this sense of the past intruding on the present that intrgues me in this chapter, and many others to come.

I agree, & yet the whole point of the story seems to be to break the link with the past which binds not just the characters but their whole world. The Ring, it seems, is what ties the present to the past, & prevents things moving forward - things seem to just go around in circles - it is a story of 'many defeats & many fruitless victories', of 'fighting the long defeat'. When the Ring is destroyed the 'circle' is broken, the elves embalming process comes to an end & things finally start to change. I think this leads us back to Fordim's Road & Ring theory. The Ring (& we shouldn't forget that the Elves are responsible for the whole 'ring' idea in the first place) is the true symbol of Middle earth, because its a world of inevitable repetitions, where the past not only affects but determines the future. The Ring is myth & magic, & in its' world there can never be any escape or forward movement. So, we can have the world of magic & wonder, of elves wandering through the forests, but we also have to take Sauron & the Ring with it - or we can destroy the Ring, lose the magic & (the intensity of) the wonder & be free to move. From this perspective, we can understand Tolkien's statement that 'the whole of Arda was Morgoth's Ring' in a new light. This is the point of Sauron's actions/desire - he desires the kind of absolute control that will keep the world turned inward on itself (as he is turned inward on himself), endlessly repeating itself.

I can't help wondering whether Tolkien's decision to choose the Ring as the focus for 'The New Hobbit' determined ultimately what the story would become, & why he could say 'it wrote itself'. Once the ring becomes the motivating force of the story, the world of the story is shaped around it, & its destruction inevitably means the end of that world.

This gives the lie (if that were still necessary) to the idea that LotR is simply good guys vs bad guys. The Ring is Middle earth, Middle earth is the Ring, & the end of one is inevitably the end of the other. I don't know whether in the end we can call Tolkien an optimist or a pessimist - optimist certainly, in that by bringing the old world of the 'eternal return' (whoa! back to the Nazis!!!) to an end, but also a pessimist in that he seems to believe that only by rejecting the 'wonder' & high magic can we be liberated. He gives us Middle earth only to take it away, & like the elves we are left only with memory (which is not what the heart desires, as someone once said).

[Fordim Hedgethistle]

I can't help wondering whether Tolkien's decision to choose the Ring as the focus for 'The New Hobbit' determined ultimately what the story would become, & why he could say 'it wrote itself'

I think that this is only half of it, as this chapter (and Child’s brilliant post!) have made clear, things really begin to ‘happen’ at Weathertop thanks to the entrance of Aragorn and the lore/history/fate that he bears with him. I’m sure we’re all aware of how Tolkien claimed that he was “surprised” when Strider introduced himself to the hobbits at Bree, and that the Professor himself had no idea who this Man was. It was this switch from Trotter to Strider that unlocked the tale for Tolkien. Yes, he had already decided to focus the story on the Ring, but it was only with the introduction of Aragorn that it became the One Ring, thus necessitating a trip to Mordor and initiating the final movement of the Third Age (but this is moving into material better left for the HoME discussion).

I raise all this merely to highlight how once more the full story that comes to engulf Frodo is not just the result of the “Shadow of the Past” (i.e. the Ring as Evil) but also of “Strider” (i.e. the chapter title). Weathertop is a great setting for the confrontation with the Nazgûl for a whole bunch of reasons, but one of them has to be that it is a ruin left over from the shared history of Sauron and Aragorn; it’s a remnant of the wars that have been waging between the Men of Numenór and Evil for thousands of years.

This cyclical nature of history/time and events, then, is one that goes forward not ‘just because,’ nor is it defined by Evil only (as davem is perhaps suggesting) but by both Evil and Good; Sauron and Aragorn; the Ring and the Sword that was Broken. Their conflict, which will be resolved in the coming War, is what now entraps Frodo.

[rutslegolas]

Well i love the Fall Of Gil-Galad

Gil-galad was an Elven-king.
Of him the harpers sadly sing:
the last whose realm was fair and free
between the Mountains and the Sea.

His sword was long, his lance was keen,
his shining helm afar was seen;
the countless stars of heaven's field
were mirrored in his silver shield.

But long ago he rode away,
and where he dwelleth none can say;
for into darkness fell his star
in Mordor where the shadows are.

This is one of the best poems Tokein has ever written ,it is supposed to lament the fall of Gil-Galad ,but I think it just describes him as he was An Great Elven King of old.

[Guinevere]

This really is the most suspenseful chapter so far!
I quite agree with Aiwendil and Bethberry that the tension in the book is far greater than in the movie.
I enjoyed reading all those great posts (very enlightening and thought-provoking as usual) There is little left to say for me.
I find the description of the attack of the wraiths on Crickhollow is very creepy. Reading it over again, I just wonder a little for what reason the black riders stand waiting at the door and the corners of the house so long (until the "cold hour before dawn") before they knock and break in the door? Is it just a trick to draw out the reader's suspension and allow Fatty to escape ?
I like the Bucklander's horncall "Fear! Fire! Foes!" (reminded me a bit of "Fee, fie , foe, fun" )

Frodo unwittingly saying "I hope the thinning process will not go on indefinitely, or I shall become a wraith." foreshadows what will actually almost happen to him after the stab of the morgul-knife! Strider, of course , knows about such things and tells him not to talk like that.
I keep thinking what a big relief it must have been for Frodo and his companions to have now Strider as their leader who took care of everything, and was so knowledgable .
At my first reading, I was as surprised as the companions to hear Sam recite the Gil-galad poem (which is one of my favourite ones) Only then I realized how extraordinary learned for a hobbit Bilbo must have been. (Apparently "working class"- hobbits didn't as a rule learn reading & writing - no schools in the Shire, then?!)

Like Davem and Hilde , I was also taken in by those wonderful descriptions of the landscape and the sense of the past they imply.
The way Aragorn chants the poem of Beren and Luthien and tells the story to the hobbits tells us that he is somehow involved with that past, even before we are aware who he is.

As Strider was speaking they watched his strange eager face, dimly lit in the red glow of the wood fire. His eyes shone and his voice was rich and deep.

And once more, I was very intrigued by Frodo calling out "A Elbereth, Gilthoniel". (That scene in the movie is nothing like that! )

[Boromir88]

I am finally back from my long, wonderful vacation to Lake Tahoe. Anyway...

Encaitare

There's the one definition of stride, which is just to walk at a fast pace. But think about it; when someone walks at a stride they're feeling pretty confident,

Aragorn back in Chapter 10 comes off as a confident man to me. He pulls out the Shards of Narsil, explains himself, and about the sword, which showed me he was "confident" in becoming the King of Gondor.

Also Mark your quote with Butterbur and Aragorn I think also forshadows what is to come to Bree. Butterbur realizes things aren't right and it's only about to get worse, as we get into the closing chapters we find much evil has happened in Bree.

I also think there are comparisons/similarities between Maggot, Bombadil, and Butterbur. I believe the reason for why Maggot acted the way he did, with the whole defying of the riders, was because he actually met Bombadil. And from Bombadil learned people will live in the Shire after all the Hobbits are gone. Maggot learned from Bombadil that there is a much bigger world out there then The Shire, and that is why Maggot acted the way he did with the Black Riders. When I think of Maggot and Butterbur, I picture two pudgy men. Maggot offers his home to the hobbits, and gives them food, lets them rest, and defies the Black Riders. Butterbur is an innkeeper, he has the hobbits stay in Bree, gives them food rest, and like Maggot, defies the Black Riders. So, I think there are definately parallels between Maggot and Butterbur.

Also, I wanted to know about Gandalf's nickname for Butterbur, Barley. When I think Barley, I think wheat-food, there you have it Butterbur an innkeeper.

The poem of Gil-galad is one of my favorites. Just saying "Gil-Galad was an elven-king, of him the harpers sadly sing...his sword was long his lance was keen," I mean just saying that makes me want to sing it in the Gulligan's Island tune. You know "Gulligan a sailor's...." whatever can't remember the rest.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Barley was just short for Butterbur's first name, Barliman. Indeed an interesting name for an innkeeper - barley is an important ingredient in beer!

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Here are some of the thoughts I developed reading the chapter.

Why Run?

On previous chapters none of the hobbits stood up against a overtly hostile Nazgûl. All they did was talk bold and hope he goes away, or run away or hide. And you could only run and hide for so long against an enemy with extensive detection capabilities and fast steeds.

So it all comes to facing the enemy. The chapter begins and ends with facing the enemy.

Angmar's Siege of Amon Sûl . . . again

Aragorn's choice of refuge is darkly amusing. More than six hundred years ago the place was ravaged by the leader of those hunting them.

Strange Deliverance

In the succeeding chapters, Gandalf said the he had succeeded to draw away some of the Nazgûl, yet that still left five to attack Weathertop, including the Witch-King. What hope have four Hobbits and a Man (be he the heir of Isildur) against such enemies?

Their deliverance came (ironically) from the Witch-King. If he had not wounded the Ringbearer, surely they would not have withdrawn until their enemies are all dead, or the Ring is taken.

Of course I wonder why did he not choose to slay Frodo. Was it his cruelty, letting Frodo be tormented rather than be killed outright? If so, it was

A small oversight; but it proved fatal. Small oversights often do. (UT III 3)

Just a Tidbit

The Nazgûl attack on Crickhollow is the only scene in LotR that did not involve any of the Fellowship (I think). But I feel you already know that.