Paired characters in LotR

[Encaitare]

So where does all this leave poor dear Bilbo? Surely not paired with no one but that nasssty Sssmeagol ...

Hmm... that actually sounds rather logical to me. The Ring entered both their lives by chance, and then the first way they used it or it affected them was for trickery: in Bilbo's case, he asked a "riddle" that technically was against the rules, and in Smeagol's case, he murdered Deagol for it. Although the effects on Smeagol were obviously more extreme, it could have happened to Bilbo given time. They both used the "precious" title for it and felt a great loss when it left their possesion.

Of course, Bilbo gave up the Ring voluntarily, doing what Smeagol could not. In doing this he avoided becoming like the wretched Smeagol/Gollum.

If we're going to use the original idea of the parts of the whole, it could be said that Bilbo needed Gollum to see what he could become, and Gollum needed Bilbo's pity to retain a bit of his humanity (hobbitity?) which delayed his later betrayal of Frodo. Had Bilbo injured Gollum, he would have borne even more resentment towards hobbits and Bagginses, and had he slain Gollum the quest would not have been fulfilled. Plus, he would have been less likely to give up the Ring, because he would have killed to keep it and thus its influence over him would have been greater.

Just my humble argument; I'd like to see if anyone can come up with another partner for Bilbo.

[Boromir88]

I think the term people are looking for is "foil." There are many "foil" characters in Tolkien, or well foil, as in "opposites." I mean obvious pairings for example, as Fordhim said, Aragorn is to Eomer and Sauron is to Saruman. Others could include as Mithalwen said Denethor/Imrahil, Smeagol/Bilbo, Gandalf/Saruman.

[Fordim Hedgethistle]

I think that Bilbo is indeed an interesting character in this regard -- as he is in so many others.

I think the obvious pairing would be between Bilbo and Frodo, in the ways identified by SpM (welcome back!), but also think that there is a lot of value in Encaitare's suggestion that we can compare Bilbo to Gollum.

I'd like to combine these two, though, and compare the set pairs of Bilbo/Gollum to Bilbo/Frodo. It's not that there's a single set of character-character relations (that is Bilbo=Frodo) but that the relationship betwee Bilbo and Gollum is reflected in the relationship of Frodo and Gollum. Bilbo met and overcame Gollum in the relatively simple monster/adventure story of The Hobbit, and so their relationship is fairly straightforward: good guy defeats bad guy. This is how Frodo's relationship with Gollum begins, but as their relationship develops and grows they both begin to realise that its just not that simple: they are partners with and to one another through the Ring. Their relationship is like the Bilbo/Gollum one but it becomes more complex the more like Gollum Frodo becomes under the influence of the Ring, and the lmore like Frodo Gollum becomes under the influence of Frodo.

In a way, the difference between The Hobbit and LotR is defined by the the difference in these relationships. What's interesting about this comparison is the fact that in TH the relatively 'simple' adversarial relation of Bilbo and Gollum is appropriate to the story of the hero's triumph. In LotR, though, it's this same adversarial, either/or way of thinking that is the problem with and in the relationship of Frodo and Gollum. And what's interesting about this is that this either/or way of thinking the divides Frodo and Gollum is promulgated by the Ring (they both want it, they can't both have it; Frodo is out to destroy it, Gollum wants to preserve it) and by Sam, who perceives Gollum in a Bilbo way, right to the end (almost).

So, the Gollum/Frodo relationship is the more 'grown up' or thematically 'mature' version of the Bilbo/Gollum relationship. It's the culmination of an evolutionary movement from one kind or version of heroism (i.e. the monster is defeated) to an other (i.e. the monster is ot monstrous but a shadowy echo of the hero; the hero forbears victory over the monster who is 'defeated' in the end, by his own success -- Gollum, after all, gets the Ring back).

[Boromir88]

Fordhim the other think I believe about the Frodo/Gollum relationship is they both desire the same goal. They both desire to keep the ring away from Sauron, Gollum made a pledge he would never let Sauron have the ring again, and he kept that promise. Frodo and Gollum both wanted to keep the ring away from Sauron, but both had different ideas of how to do so. Frodo wanted to destroy it, Gollum wanted to keep it for himself.

I think you are right when you say Frodo/Gollum is a more "mature relationship" then Bilbo/Gollum. I think the reason for that would be because Frodo just spent a lot of time with Gollum. I mean Gollum was their "guide" for a big chunk of the journey, where Bilbo only knew Gollum for a short time, and plus the fact that Gollum and Bilbo wanted to kill eachother didn't really help the cause.

How about a comparison between Galadriel/Gimli. I know this has been discussed a number of times before, but I think it's worth bringing up here too. Galadriel was one of the Elves that showed hospitality to the dwarves (the other being Elrond). Galadriel being Noldor, and from Aule, there is this shared connection between Galadriel and Gimli. I don't know how you would describe it, but it seemed like Gimli had a touch of "unrequited love" and Galadriel was just sort of flattered by it. That's all we hear from Gimli for the rest of the book, gushing about Galadriel, ahh the pretty lady, lol.

Then there's something about Frodo I would like to mention. Frodo's parents had died when Frodo was still very young. So now who steps in as the "father" figure to Frodo, that he never, essentially had. I think first that father figure is Bilbo, but then Bilbo goes off to Rivendell, and Frodo still needs sort of that "father" to depend on. In steps Gandalf for a while, but Gandalf goes away and is trapped on Orthanc. So then, we get to Bree and Aragorn comes in, I don't know if you would say Aragorn was that "father figure" that Gandalf and Bilbo was to Frodo, but definately was a person Frodo looked up to. In the End, Frodo has grown, age wise, and mentally wise, doesn't need that "father" anymore. Now that we got the Father figure out of the way, I don't know if one would consider Galadriel as sort of a mother/grandmother to Frodo, but she did lend him advice, and did help him with his journey. Galadriel being arguably one of the more powerful people on Middle-Earth, she could even be like that "Grandmother" figure to the peoples of Middle-Earth. Eventhough, in the beginning we do see there are these "strange" tales of the Lady in the Wood, and as Eomer shows his strong hate towards it. But, in the end I would think Galadriel became one of the more respected people of Middle-Earth.

[radagastly]

This is a topic I have thought about a great deal over the last several months, though I forget which thread here inspired it. It may well have been Fordim's Monsters thread. Since the book is called The Lord of the Rings, my focus in thinking about this centered around the Ring itself. The one thing that seemed to catch my attention the most on this topic of pairs (or foils as Boromir88 mentioned) lay in the list of ringbearers, more specifically in how they acquired or lost the ring. So, as a quick review, here are the ringbearers in order:

Sauron
Isildur
Deagol
Smeagol
Bilbo
Frodo
Sam
Frodo
Smeagol

While others may have handled the ring, they never declared possession of it either out loud or in their heart. They were therefore not actual Ringbearers. On this list, there are many pairings, as I said, especially in the acquisition and/or dispensation of the ring.

Two times the ring was acquired through a deliberate act of violence (Smeagol both times)
Two of them found it by some kind of chance (Deagol and Bilbo)
Twice it was given freely to the bearer (Frodo received it both times in this fashion)
and twice it was taken-on more or less 'from scratch' after the previous bearer was dead. (Isildur cut it from Sauron's dead body and Sam took it thinking Frodo was dead).

There are also some interesting pairings in how the bearers lost the ring.

Two of them lost a finger when it was taken from them. (Obviously Sauron and Frodo)
Two of them died (but were not really dead in either case) when it was taken from their body (again Sauron and Frodo)
Two of them were abandoned by the ring itself (Isildur and Smeagol)
Two of them gave the ring away freely (Bilbo and Sam)
Two of them were deliberately killed over of it (Sauron and Deagol)

I realize that some arguments could be made of these kinds of pairings. One might argue that Isildur's death came as an attempt to take the ring, but according to "The Disaster of the Gladden Fields" in Unfinished Tales, the marauding orcs did not attempt to pursue Ohtar when he escaped the battle with the shards of Narsil. If they were deliberately after anything of value, other than simply attacking men for it's own sake, they would certainly have sent a sortie to sieze Ohtar and his companion as they fled, thinking that they may be taking away something of great value.

Be that as it may, what does one learn when seeing this list and the obvious pairings laid out like this, knowing the history and personality of each character that bore the ring?

One of the first things I notice is that Frodo is the only character to receive the ring freely given, and he did so twice. And what's more, he received it from the two people in the world who loved him the most (and the only two people to give up this burden willingly). What similarity lies in the pairing of Bilbo and Sam that each of them would lay this unbearable burden onto someone they loved so dearly? This is to me one of the most obvious Christian references in the entire book.

Another obvious pairing lies in the fact that two of the bearers bore the ring twice; Smeagol and Frodo.

Frodo received the ring twice freely given to him. Smeagol acquired it twice through deliberate acts of violence. Frodo went to an ultimate reward in the West (or perhaps penultimate would be a better word) while Smeagol perished in flame. What does their respective means of acquiring the ring say about their ultimate fate as foils of one another? What do the other Ringbearer pairings on the list have to say about Tolkien's philosophy or theology? Can a similar list be drawn up centered around the demeanor in which each of the bearers kept the Ring? Can other similarities besides what I mentioned be found in the lists I've created above and what would that add to the mix of this discussion on pairings?

I feel as though I'm getting a little long-winded so I will post more on this later, after I see what some of you think.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Here's HerenIstarion's idea for a pair (well, not exactly a pair . . . ):

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthr...1271#post21271

If you scroll down, you'll see his FSG (Frodo-Sam-Gollum) idea, and then the Aragorn-Arwen pair. Quite a good read. For that matter, read the rest of the topic (though it has nothing to do with pairs!) Perhaps I've said too much . . .

[Evisse the Blue]

That was a really fascinating post, radagastly!

Two times the ring was acquired through a deliberate act of violence (Smeagol both times)
Two of them found it by some kind of chance (Deagol and Bilbo)
Twice it was given freely to the bearer (Frodo received it both times in this fashion)
and twice it was taken-on more or less 'from scratch' after the previous bearer was dead. (Isildur cut it from Sauron's dead body and Sam took it thinking Frodo was dead).

I would have included Isildur in the first category, therefore breaking the 'balance'. But I agree that Elrond's account of how the Ring came in Isildur's possesion is ambiguous and could very well prove your point:

Sauron himself was overthrown and Isildur cut the Ring from his hand(...)

This does indicate that Isildur cut the Ring after Sauron fell, but it is not clarified if Sauron was overthrown by Isildur, or by someone else, in order to be removed of the Ring.
If you're right, and Isildur falls in the same category as Sam, then this offers and interesting possibility of redemption for Isildur, if only he had released the Ring from his keeping. At one point he is ready to do that:

"It needs one greater than I know now myself to be. My pride has fallen. It should go to the Keepers of the Three."

. But it was too late, because the Ring apparently had other plans. Redemption was thus denied to him, maybe because it was not yet the time for it.

What similarity lies in the pairing of Bilbo and Sam that each of them would lay this unbearable burden onto someone they loved so dearly? This is to me one of the most obvious Christian references in the entire book.

I agree.
My thoughts on this: They seem to place the fate of many above the fate of a single individual, whom they happen to love very much. And they do it on account of their faith that everything will turn out alright, this faith which seems to many no more than 'a fool's hope'. They do it because they sense there is no other way. It appears to me that they would rather let themselves governed by the flow of events, by fate, if you will, then will things into happening. All the other Ringbearers (except Frodo) willed things into happening, and only harm came of it.

[Boromir88]

Evisse wrote:

This does indicate that Isildur cut the Ring after Sauron fell, but it is not clarified if Sauron was overthrown by Isildur, or by someone else, in order to be removed of the Ring.

Here is a quote from The Shadow of the Past, this is what Gandalf said:

"But for the moment, since most of all you need to know how this thing came to you, and that will be tale enough, this is all that I will say. It was Gil-Galad, Elven king and Elendil of Westernesse who overthrew Sauron...

So if Gandalf is correct in this (because sometimes the account/stories of people are inaccurate) I think this is what happened...

This does indicate that Isildur cut the Ring after Sauron fell

So, if Gandalf's story is accurate, I think Gil-Galad and Elendil overthrew Sauron, then Isildur cut the ring after Gil-Gald, Elendil, and Sauron were all "overthrown." I think I can trust Gandalf's words, especially if it has the backing of Elrond.

Sauron himself was overthrown and Isildur cut the Ring from his hand