Why their were no women in the fellowship - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Sapphire_Flame · 09-16-2004, 08:48 AM

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Aren't cats supposed to have come from Mordor?

"I fear that to me Siamese cats belong to the fauna of Mordor..." ~J.R.R Tolkien, Letters #219

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4---Farmer Maggot's wife

How about one of Pippin's sisters for the fourth hobbit? (Pearl, Pimpernel, or Pervinca)

I don't think this is why Tolkien excluded females from the Fellowship, but it's a darn good reason anyway. At regular points in the journey, the females would be *coughcough* indisposed. And believe me, it sucks to be out camping and trudging when you're *coughcough* indisposed. So, even if any women had the opportunity to go, I don't think they would choose to.

Abedithon le,

~ Saphy ~

Encaitare · 09-16-2004, 08:11 PM

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I don't think this is why Tolkien excluded females from the Fellowship, but it's a darn good reason anyway. At regular points in the journey, the females would be *coughcough* indisposed. And believe me, it sucks to be out camping and trudging when you're *coughcough* indisposed. So, even if any women had the opportunity to go, I don't think they would choose to.

I believe that's what many of us were thinking, but no one wanted to come out and say it. So well done you! I can just see the annoying Mary-Sue whinging to the Fellowship... "No, really, guys, I need to stop! Please! I'm in a lot of pain and discomfort right now!" And since she's an annoying MS no one bothers to pay any attention to her. Ouch.

Thanks for providing the quote regarding cats, also.

HerenIstarion · 09-21-2004, 07:10 AM

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and I'm not being sexist I'm a girl

Can it not work the other way round?

But, not to stray (or to stray just a little bit):

I consider myself a resonable merman. I set certain rules, and I expect those rules to be obeyed ~ King Triton to his daughter, The Little Mermaid.

The Midde-Earth [Free People] societies simply do not allow for such a thing. There are roles, yer honours, and there are certain rules. See also The Role of Women in The Lord of the Rings

Bêthberry · 09-21-2004, 08:42 AM

Oh, look, everyone knows that since Eve ate apples, women cannot be trusted. And it's got nothing to do with duplicity. It's that servient, helpmeet instinct coupled with (yes, coupled

) their gift to be receptive and stimulated by males. They would probably have been so desirous to be sympathetic and understanding not only to Gollem but to Saruman and even Sauron as well that, well, they would have been sucked in just like Saruman was by his desire for knowledge.

*coughs*

Encaitare · 09-21-2004, 05:16 PM

I sense that you are a fan of "The Little Mermaid," HI, or at least know it rather well... first the Flounder reference in the CbC thread, and now the one above...

The point you made was quite true, though. Although Middle-earth has a full share of strong women, they are generally not warriors (Eowyn being the exception). Since the Fellowship was supposed to be kept small, it would have been impossible to take along someone who wasn't able to give their all to the Quest or prove the most useful.

tar-ancalime · 09-22-2004, 11:34 AM

I don't know about these arguments that hold that women were excluded because of an unfortunate lack of warrior-princess-ness or even because of their moon cycles. Every member of the Fellowship was imperfect, and each gave to it according to his ability. The hobbits, for example, had to be carried down the mountain when the snow was too deep for them, and they made up 44% of the Fellowship. Their journey to Rivendell also was not exactly an advertisement for their worldliness or discretion. And they're not the only ones who don't always seem to be assets to the strength of the group.

Dwarves don't ride well, Elves have no stomach for caves, and the Gondorian never even said he was along for the whole journey. I don't think the Fellowship was ever about usefulness--I think it was symbolic, made up of all the Free Peoples (except Ents, evidently), and the number nine was arbitrarily chosen not for any practical purpose but to set Nine Walkers against Nine Riders. I really think that the purpose of the Fellowship was to show solidarity among the many races of Middle-Earth, to make a highly symbolic move against the Enemy, and only incidentally to help Frodo. Everyone knew that it would eventually come down to a hobbit, standing alone at the Sammath Naur, and that were he accompanied by a whole army the end of the journey would be the same.

**The Saucepan Man** · 09-22-2004, 11:43 AM

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Originally Posted by Encaitare

Although Middle-earth has a full share of strong women, they are generally not warriors (Eowyn being the exception). Since the Fellowship was supposed to be kept small, it would have been impossible to take along someone who wasn't able to give their all to the Quest or prove the most useful.

Oh I don't know. A female member of the Fellowship would have been very useful when it came to cooking and washing travel-stained clothes. They would have been well advised to keep the map away from her, though.

*Ducks flying rolling-pins and assorted culinary equipment*

09-21-2004, 08:42 AM	#4
Bêthberry Cryptic Aura Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 6,003	Oh, look, everyone knows that since Eve ate apples, women cannot be trusted. And it's got nothing to do with duplicity. It's that servient, helpmeet instinct coupled with (yes, coupled ) their gift to be receptive and stimulated by males. They would probably have been so desirous to be sympathetic and understanding not only to Gollem but to Saruman and even Sauron as well that, well, they would have been sucked in just like Saruman was by his desire for knowledge. coughs __________________ I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away.

09-22-2004, 11:34 AM	#6
tar-ancalime Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: abaft the beam Posts: 303	I don't know about these arguments that hold that women were excluded because of an unfortunate lack of warrior-princess-ness or even because of their moon cycles. Every member of the Fellowship was imperfect, and each gave to it according to his ability. The hobbits, for example, had to be carried down the mountain when the snow was too deep for them, and they made up 44% of the Fellowship. Their journey to Rivendell also was not exactly an advertisement for their worldliness or discretion. And they're not the only ones who don't always seem to be assets to the strength of the group. Dwarves don't ride well, Elves have no stomach for caves, and the Gondorian never even said he was along for the whole journey. I don't think the Fellowship was ever about usefulness--I think it was symbolic, made up of all the Free Peoples (except Ents, evidently), and the number nine was arbitrarily chosen not for any practical purpose but to set Nine Walkers against Nine Riders. I really think that the purpose of the Fellowship was to show solidarity among the many races of Middle-Earth, to make a highly symbolic move against the Enemy, and only incidentally to help Frodo. Everyone knew that it would eventually come down to a hobbit, standing alone at the Sammath Naur, and that were he accompanied by a whole army the end of the journey would be the same. __________________ Having fun wolfing it to the bitter end, I see, gaur-ancalime (lmp, ww13)

09-21-2004, 05:16 PM	#5
Encaitare Bittersweet Symphony Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: On the jolly starship Enterprise Posts: 1,814	I sense that you are a fan of "The Little Mermaid," HI, or at least know it rather well... first the Flounder reference in the CbC thread, and now the one above... The point you made was quite true, though. Although Middle-earth has a full share of strong women, they are generally not warriors (Eowyn being the exception). Since the Fellowship was supposed to be kept small, it would have been impossible to take along someone who wasn't able to give their all to the Quest or prove the most useful.