Civil War if Boromir survived?

[davem]

It is far more powerful than I ever dared to think at first, so powerful that in the end it would overcome anyone of mortal race who possessed it. It would possess him' (The Shadow of the Past)

Of course, we're back to the Manichaean/Boethian thing - is the Ring an external power of evil, which can overcome anyone simply by its overwhelming power, or is it something which brings out the innate 'evil' tendencies in the individual?

I think the key is in Gandalf's statement about 'possession'. It 'posesses' anyone who 'possesses' it. But what does 'possession' imply in this instance - simply having it?

Chambers dictionary gives the following definitions of 'possess':

to have or hold as owner, ..to seize..to control..to be master of...to dominate the mind of

[QUOTE=Boromir88]

Quote:In the "Mirror of Galadriel", it appears that Galadriel conceived of herself as capable of wielding the Ring and supplanting the Dark Lord. IF so, so also were the other guardians of the Three, especially Elrond.[/QUOTE


This states, if Galadriel saw herself taking the ring and supplanting Sauron (which we can see from the chapter "Mirror in Galadriel" when she comes out and says she's desired it). This just says, if Galadriel did, then so did the other 3 ringbearers (Elrond and Gandalf), and it even comes out to say ESPECIALLY Elrond. So, Elrond was tempted, like Galadriel, but of course he didn't let it get in his way.

Well, that merely says to me that Elrond, like Gandalf & Galdadriel, 'concieved of themselves as capable of using it' - but so did pretty much everyone who came into contact with it. But knowing you can do something is not the same as being tempted to do it, & its certainly not the same as being 'possessed' by the idea.

Sam was tempted by the Ring, but temptation is merely the making of an offer - the Ring showed Sam what it could offer him, he weighed the offer up, & dismissed it as ridiculous. So did Galadriel. Temptation is not really relevant in this context; what is relevant is the individual's reaction to the temptation - some are able to dismiss the temptation out of hand, because they find what's offered to be silly (Sam) or morally wrong (Gandalf, Galadriel, Faramir).

Basically, none of them desired to 'possess' the Ring, so it could not 'possess' them. I think this is why some find Faramir a two dimensional character, either stupid or too good to be true. But this is only the case if the Ring is an overpowering external source that no-one can resist or reject, & while Tolkien, in letters written after the event, may seem to imply that, it does not come across so in the book. In the book there are many characters who are simply not tempted by it, or if they are, are able to dismiss the temptation out of hand.

Why? Well, it seems that the ones who can reject it are the ones with spiritual values & goals which are in direct opposition to what the Ring seems to offer. Simply, the ring can offer nothing to Aragorn, Faramir, Elrond or Sam that they would actually want - they have no desire to 'possess' it. Others are more sorely tempted, because it perhaps could offer a solution to their problems - Galadriel's focus is on defeating Sauron but not really on anything beyond that, & the Ring could do that for her. Gandalf's mission is to defeat Sauron also, so he is tempted, but Aragorn, Faramir, & Sam in his own way, wish for other things. They all want something which the Ring not only cannot give them, but which possessing it would actually put at risk. They don't want anything it can offer. Sam, for instance, may desire to see Mordor turned into a garden, but he doesn't actually want to be Samwise the Strong.

My position is, I suppose, the Boethian one - I don't believe the Ring is an external force of evil so powerful it can & will inevitably corrupt anyone - some will have no desire to possess it, so it will have nothing to work on - it may tempt them, but the temtation will not be seductive enough, so it will never get the chance to possess them.