The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Books
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-30-2004, 02:40 AM   #1
Gothbogg the Ripper
Wight
 
Gothbogg the Ripper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Southend,U.K
Posts: 113
Gothbogg the Ripper has just left Hobbiton.
The Eye

Well, I don't reckon they'd leave their dead lying on a battlefield if they could help it, Dwarves were quite proud of their heriteige so wouldn't the do everything in their power to give their fallen comrades a noble end, so maybe that's why there were no Dwarves in the Dead Marshes?
__________________
Thanks for abandoning me for three years guys. I really enjoyed being a total outcast.
Gothbogg the Ripper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2004, 02:43 AM   #2
Fingolfin II
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Fingolfin II's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Where you want me to be
Posts: 1,036
Fingolfin II has just left Hobbiton.
Good point, Gothbogg. This tendency of the Dwarves' nature that you highlighted reminded me of how the Dwarves carried off their Lord, Azaghal, in the Nirnaeth, without regard for the battle.
__________________
Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta.
Fingolfin II is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2005, 11:01 AM   #3
Morsul the Dark
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Morsul the Dark's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 3,448
Morsul the Dark is a guest at the Prancing Pony.Morsul the Dark is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
Well if tolkien says however that there were very few dwarves then why wouldn't it be plausible that the dwarves are in the marsh I mean the marsh isnt that small they could be scattered you know one here one there so on so forth

then again, unless someone knows the reason they hate dwarves, maybe elves dont get along with dwarves because they abandonned battle to bury their comrades and therefore the elves partially blame the dwarves for the horrifying number of deaths in that battle...just a thought
__________________
Morsul the Resurrected
Morsul the Dark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2005, 04:12 PM   #4
Kuruharan
Regal Dwarven Shade
 
Kuruharan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,593
Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Boots

Quote:
Well if tolkien says however that there were very few dwarves then why wouldn't it be plausible that the dwarves are in the marsh I mean the marsh isnt that small they could be scattered you know one here one there so on so forth
Because it just wasn't the way they did things.

Quote:
then again, unless someone knows the reason they hate dwarves, maybe elves dont get along with dwarves because they abandonned battle to bury their comrades and therefore the elves partially blame the dwarves for the horrifying number of deaths in that battle...just a thought
Doubtful. The reasons for Dwarven/Elven antipathy lie back in the First Age well before the Last Alliance.
__________________
...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no...
Kuruharan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2005, 10:29 AM   #5
keghobbit
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
the hatred between elves and dwarves comes from the first age when I think there was a bloody war between the two. Also there is probably some resentment because the elves were supposed to be the eldest, and the dwarves were made before them.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2005, 05:03 PM   #6
Gil-Galad
Psyche of Prince Immortal
 
Gil-Galad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Above a Parapet Obvious exits are: North, South, and Dennis
Posts: 4,734
Gil-Galad has been trapped in the Barrow!
Send a message via MSN to Gil-Galad
keep in mind that the dwarves of Moria had nothing to do with the downfall of Doriath, seeing how they were already farther away, and the dwarves of Nogrod attacked Doriath, not Belegost of Moria, so i would guess its really the elves that had the bigger grudge againest the dwarves, and the dwarves just gave up and said "find, be that way" but i guess the Dwarves helped man most during LA, but with the "Scatha incident", the Dwarves proberly hated Man and Elves, so the 3 races grew apart from each other
__________________
Love doesn't blow up and get killed.
Gil-Galad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2005, 06:13 PM   #7
The Saucepan Man
Corpus Cacophonous
 
The Saucepan Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: A green and pleasant land
Posts: 8,390
The Saucepan Man has been trapped in the Barrow!
Question Battlefield undertaking?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark
... maybe elves dont get along with dwarves because they abandonned battle to bury their comrades ...
How can you abandon a battle to bury those fallen in the battle ...?
__________________
Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind!
The Saucepan Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2005, 09:06 PM   #8
Glirdan
Energetic Essence
 
Glirdan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Where Lark Nor Eagle Ever Flew
Posts: 3,285
Glirdan is a guest of Tom Bombadil.
Send a message via MSN to Glirdan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gothbogg the Ripper
Well, I don't reckon they'd leave their dead lying on a battlefield if they could help it, Dwarves were quite proud of their heriteige so wouldn't the do everything in their power to give their fallen comrades a noble end, so maybe that's why there were no Dwarves in the Dead Marshes?

I'd have to agree with Gothbogg on this one. They probably carried off all those who died and buried them in proper dwarf fashion. Then again, who knows. They might have only taken those of higher lineage and buried them in their fashion and left the rest to be taken by the Dead Marshes in later years.
__________________
I'm going to buy you a kitty, I'm going to let you fall in love with the kitty, and one cold, winter night, I'm going to steal into your house and punch you in the face!
Fenris Wolf
Glirdan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2005, 07:56 AM   #9
Gil-Galad
Psyche of Prince Immortal
 
Gil-Galad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Above a Parapet Obvious exits are: North, South, and Dennis
Posts: 4,734
Gil-Galad has been trapped in the Barrow!
Send a message via MSN to Gil-Galad
well if they took them off in later years, you would think the bodies would be already decomposed... another theory i came up with was that maybe the dwarves didn't fight at Dagorlad, but after, and participated during the siege of Barad Dur, so maybe only the elves and men fought in the marshes, but when they broke through into Mordor, then the Dwarves came in to help, that would explain there being no dwarven bodies in the Dead marshes
__________________
Love doesn't blow up and get killed.
Gil-Galad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2005, 09:27 AM   #10
Kuruharan
Regal Dwarven Shade
 
Kuruharan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,593
Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Boots

Quote:
maybe the dwarves didn't fight at Dagorlad
No dice. Dwarves are specifically mentioned as having fought there.

Quote:
All living things were divided in that day, and some of every kind, even of beasts and birds, were found in either hose, save the Elves only. They alone were undivided and followed Gil-galad. Of the Dwarves few fought upon either side; but the kindred of Durin of Moria fought against Sauron.
-Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age
Since Dagorlad was the great battle of the age we have to assume that the dwarves fought there.

Really people, I think you are making this much harder than it has to be. Tolkien specifically stated that the dwarves laid their dead in stone. He gives us the one exception to this rule and emphasizes its uniqueness. There isn't any mention of dwarven corpses in the Dead Marshes. We have to assume that the dwarves found some means of honoring their burial traditions whether they shipped the bodies back home for burial or buried them in the Mountains of Mordor.

I would suggest that perhaps the number of dwarven slain was possibly so small as to render either method relatively easy...except it is very difficult to get a grip on the number of possible participants in this war. The armies on both sides were obviously very large, so the Longbeards could potentially have sent as many as 10,000 warriors and this could have been accounted "few" in comparison with the numbers of men and elves in the army (although this is perhaps an extreme example to illustrate the problems in the question).
__________________
...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no...
Kuruharan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:28 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.