Did Bill Ferny die? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Mithalwen · 10-03-2004, 10:54 AM

Interesting link Nilpaurion ..

Eomer ... if Bill Ferny were the mouth of Sauron - why did not Aragorn, who had been more intimate with him than most denounce him? And who did Bill the Pony (whether ninja or not) kick in the Shire (possibly an euphemism for a tender area?)?

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 10-03-2004, 12:22 PM

Aragon had a lot on his plate at that moment in time. It is also possible that it was not Bill Ferny working as a Ruffian, but rather an imposter, or at least a phantom. Because Tolkien did not write about it, no-one can denounce this theory as being ridiculous.

Think about it, Frodo was delusional near the end of his life, any other Hobbit would tell you that. His account of the Scouring of the Shire cannot be considered concrete evidence in the case.

As for use of the phrase The Shire, I am currently finding it hard to stop laughing.

Mithalwen · 10-03-2004, 12:56 PM

Glad to amuse

Probably better not to extend the idea to "the Scouring of the Shire" - enough to make even a woman wince.... oh err oops

But I sense an agenda here..... would you suggest that the account of the Ringbearer is flawed overall - misrepresentation of Wargs, gross factual errors regarding the identity of fringe but not insignificant characters? This is obviously a more significant issue than I previously thought.

Lachwen · 10-03-2004, 03:48 PM

So Frodo was writing with an agenda? Hmm...hard to discredit. But what, exactly, was his agenda? Bill-Ferny-gate makes it obvious that it goes beyond merely smearing the noble Wargs.

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 10-04-2004, 06:07 AM

Perhaps not with an agenda as such, but Frodo was essentially mad near the end of his days on Middle-earth. Could this pose problems for even more significant questions than Did Bill Ferny Die? What else has Frodo been wrong about?

Mithalwen · 10-04-2004, 11:26 AM

Actually - why do you thing Frodo was mad? Apart from his moments of pain induced delirium what is the evidence for a lack of lucidity?

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 10-05-2004, 04:41 AM

It was considered in Hobbit circles even before Frodo left that he and Bilbo were 'away with the fairies', so to speak. After he came back to the Shire with (let's face it) all these ridiculous tales about Elves and Orcs and Mountains of Fire, it was generally regarded amongst those in the community that young Baggins was completely off his head.

This comes across even in the Red Book, Frodo's personal propoganda. I can only imagine what an objective view would consist of.

10-03-2004, 10:54 AM	#1
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,461	Interesting link Nilpaurion .. Eomer ... if Bill Ferny were the mouth of Sauron - why did not Aragorn, who had been more intimate with him than most denounce him? And who did Bill the Pony (whether ninja or not) kick in the Shire (possibly an euphemism for a tender area?)? __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

10-03-2004, 12:22 PM	#2
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	Aragon had a lot on his plate at that moment in time. It is also possible that it was not Bill Ferny working as a Ruffian, but rather an imposter, or at least a phantom. Because Tolkien did not write about it, no-one can denounce this theory as being ridiculous. Think about it, Frodo was delusional near the end of his life, any other Hobbit would tell you that. His account of the Scouring of the Shire cannot be considered concrete evidence in the case. As for use of the phrase The Shire, I am currently finding it hard to stop laughing. __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

10-03-2004, 12:56 PM	#3
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,461	"Did you get him in the Trossochs? " Glad to amuse Probably better not to extend the idea to "the Scouring of the Shire" - enough to make even a woman wince.... oh err oops But I sense an agenda here..... would you suggest that the account of the Ringbearer is flawed overall - misrepresentation of Wargs, gross factual errors regarding the identity of fringe but not insignificant characters? This is obviously a more significant issue than I previously thought. __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

10-03-2004, 03:48 PM	#4
Lachwen Wight Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Greenwood the Great. Posts: 115	So Frodo was writing with an agenda? Hmm...hard to discredit. But what, exactly, was his agenda? Bill-Ferny-gate makes it obvious that it goes beyond merely smearing the noble Wargs. __________________ "'...Home is the sailor, home from the sea, And the hunter home from the hill.'"

10-04-2004, 06:07 AM	#5
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	Perhaps not with an agenda as such, but Frodo was essentially mad near the end of his days on Middle-earth. Could this pose problems for even more significant questions than Did Bill Ferny Die? What else has Frodo been wrong about? __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

10-04-2004, 11:26 AM	#6
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,461	The Madness of Frodo Actually - why do you thing Frodo was mad? Apart from his moments of pain induced delirium what is the evidence for a lack of lucidity? __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

10-05-2004, 04:41 AM	#7
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	So naive... It was considered in Hobbit circles even before Frodo left that he and Bilbo were 'away with the fairies', so to speak. After he came back to the Shire with (let's face it) all these ridiculous tales about Elves and Orcs and Mountains of Fire, it was generally regarded amongst those in the community that young Baggins was completely off his head. This comes across even in the Red Book, Frodo's personal propoganda. I can only imagine what an objective view would consist of. __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond