Middle Earth - Unstuck in Time? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Estelyn Telcontar · 10-04-2004, 02:24 PM

Quote:

...even I would never include Denethor with an umbrella in an RPG unless I was writing in Entish bow.

Child, you can expect me to take you up on that challenge soon!

Quote:

"Well, well!" said a voice. "Just look! Denethor the Steward with an umbrella, my dear! Isn't it delicious!"

"Most astonishing wonderful!"

Estelyn Telcontar · 10-05-2004, 07:30 AM

OK, I did it - I gave the Steward of Minus Teeth an umbrella! Here is that incongruous story element. I'm not sure whether I should thank all of you who mentioned that so often that I *had* to write it, or whether I should beg your pardon! I guess both, depending on your viewpoint on parody...

Ealasaide · 10-05-2004, 08:43 AM

Oh, yay!

I think it's great that the Steward of Minus Teeth now has an umbrella. I feel honored to be a "contributor" to Entish Bow....even in such a distant and oblique sort of way...

10-20-2004, 01:29 PM

When visiting, does he drop small items of high value into his umbrella, thus annying his host?

Rumil · 10-21-2004, 02:16 PM

I can't see any problem with umbrellas in ME, after all they're hardly high-tech items. The umbrella situation may be revealing, however, in that there should be no set order of things being invented, apart from those that depend on the technology of their predecessors. For example, you'd have trouble inventing the rifle if no-one had thought of gunpowder before, whereas I can't see any good reason to develop windmills before water mills or vice-versa.

Umbrellas weren't invented by Western society but were brought back from India, where they had been used for centuries, mostly as sunshades admittedly, but the principle's the same. I've even seen a carving of an umbrella-esque sunshade adorning the chariot of the King of Persia in Biblical times. Naturally an umbrella is partly an item of fashion and the current culture will determine whether or not it appears silly.

On clocks, I wonder if they were made by the Dwarves, like the seemingly 'magical' toys, then traded to the hobbits. I'd imagine that the Dwarves were the most mechanically advanced of the peoples. There's no reason that Celeborn couldn't have had a clock, but I'd expect the elves to be uninterested in such artefacts of mechanical technology. (Anyway it'd have to be set to tick once every month!)

Meanwhile with ships, the Numenoreans were noted as sailing 'galleons' and being able to circumnavigate the world in such ships. One would therefore maybe associate them with the Portuguese and Spanish galleons of the Age of Discovery, Columbus, Magellan, the Conquistadores and the Armada, say around the late 1400s to 1500s (minus the canon). However it seemed plain that by the end of the Third Age Gondor's seafaring technology had decayed.

Tolkien said thet he visualised the fighting men of Middle Earth to be equipped similarly to those depicted on the Bayeux tapestry, which fits well with the descriptions of the Rohirrim in the books.

As Tolkien chose his words with great care, I think its not too much of a jump to look for the historical occurences of, for example, the dromund, and let these guide our thoughts.

10-05-2004, 07:30 AM	#2
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,500	OK, I did it - I gave the Steward of Minus Teeth an umbrella! Here is that incongruous story element. I'm not sure whether I should thank all of you who mentioned that so often that I had to write it, or whether I should beg your pardon! I guess both, depending on your viewpoint on parody... __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'

10-05-2004, 08:43 AM	#3
Ealasaide Shadow of Tyrn Gorthad Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: The Fencing Lyst Posts: 810	Oh, yay! I think it's great that the Steward of Minus Teeth now has an umbrella. I feel honored to be a "contributor" to Entish Bow....even in such a distant and oblique sort of way... Last edited by Ealasaide; 10-05-2004 at 09:14 AM.

10-21-2004, 02:16 PM	#5
Rumil Sage & Onions Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Britain Posts: 894	I can't see any problem with umbrellas in ME, after all they're hardly high-tech items. The umbrella situation may be revealing, however, in that there should be no set order of things being invented, apart from those that depend on the technology of their predecessors. For example, you'd have trouble inventing the rifle if no-one had thought of gunpowder before, whereas I can't see any good reason to develop windmills before water mills or vice-versa. Umbrellas weren't invented by Western society but were brought back from India, where they had been used for centuries, mostly as sunshades admittedly, but the principle's the same. I've even seen a carving of an umbrella-esque sunshade adorning the chariot of the King of Persia in Biblical times. Naturally an umbrella is partly an item of fashion and the current culture will determine whether or not it appears silly. On clocks, I wonder if they were made by the Dwarves, like the seemingly 'magical' toys, then traded to the hobbits. I'd imagine that the Dwarves were the most mechanically advanced of the peoples. There's no reason that Celeborn couldn't have had a clock, but I'd expect the elves to be uninterested in such artefacts of mechanical technology. (Anyway it'd have to be set to tick once every month!) Meanwhile with ships, the Numenoreans were noted as sailing 'galleons' and being able to circumnavigate the world in such ships. One would therefore maybe associate them with the Portuguese and Spanish galleons of the Age of Discovery, Columbus, Magellan, the Conquistadores and the Armada, say around the late 1400s to 1500s (minus the canon). However it seemed plain that by the end of the Third Age Gondor's seafaring technology had decayed. Tolkien said thet he visualised the fighting men of Middle Earth to be equipped similarly to those depicted on the Bayeux tapestry, which fits well with the descriptions of the Rohirrim in the books. As Tolkien chose his words with great care, I think its not too much of a jump to look for the historical occurences of, for example, the dromund, and let these guide our thoughts. __________________ Rumil of Coedhirion

10-20-2004, 01:29 PM	#4
bolcotook Guest Posts: n/a	When visiting, does he drop small items of high value into his umbrella, thus annying his host?