The Power of Isengard

[rutslegolas]

Indeed yes ,but I do not think after getting the ring Saruman would be so arrogant as to lauch an attack on the Dark Lord ,I think he would bid his time ( as he said to Gandalf ) ,he would wait till the Dark Lord launches his attack on Gondor and Roahn and then when his armies are scattered ,he will attack the Dark Lord .

But he will have to get armies which he does not have ,from where he will get these I do not know??

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by rutslegolas

Indeed yes ,but I do not think after getting the ring Saruman would be so arrogant as to lauch an attack on the Dark Lord ,I think he would bid his time

I agree that this would have been Saruman's best strategy. But he is unlikely to have had much choice in the matter. As soon as Sauron became aware that Saruman had the Ring, surely he would attack him with everything he could.

So, the most likely outcome would be a conflict between Saruman's forces and those of Sauron. The latter would probably prevail, and then it would come down to a straight fight between Saruman and Sauron for the Ring. It is conceivable that Saruman would have a chance, but the smart money would probably be on the Red Eye rather than the White Hand.

The interesting question is what do the good guys do while all this is going on? An alliance with either would surely be out of the question since, whichever way the conflict went, it would spell disater for the Free Peoples. Or perhaps their best hope would be to feign an alliance and hope that someone (Gandalf?) could get sufficiently close to the final confrontation between Saruman and Sauron so as to be able to seize the Ring and use it to defeat the victor while he was in a weakened state. But then what happens ...?

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Denethor or (in later years) Boromir would go to claim the Ring for themselves when the armies of Sauron and Saruman had been weakened. Gandalf, Elrond, etc. would realise this folly but would they be able to do anything about it?

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

Denethor or (in later years) Boromir would go to claim the Ring for themselves when the armies of Sauron and Saruman had been weakened. Gandalf, Elrond, etc. would realise this folly but would they be able to do anything about it?

Interesting point, but a big factor in Denethor's despair was what he saw (via the Palantir of Minas Tirith) as Sauron's swift and inevitable victory over Gondor. With the immediate threat removed and Sauron less devoted to influencing him, might Denethor's undeniable wisdom have caused him to listen to the counsels of the Wise? But then again, would he have been prepared to yield to Aragorn's claim to the throne? It seems unlikely ...

[Zebedee]

Sauron and Saruman would surely fight, but Sauruman most likely would wait for Sauron to attack Isengard. To reach Isengard, Sauron would have to fight through Gondor and Rohan, so Saruman would have a little more time. Perhaps Rohan would even have fought for him had Gandalf not freed Theoden from Wormtongue.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Good points Zebedee. To add to Saucepan man's comments, it does seem likely that Denethor would be a better leader of Gondor in this case. However, the Aragorn-situation would likely have had a similar effect on his decision-making (albeit not as spectacular an influence as the palantir did). It would not have led to any flaming suicidal leaps ( ) from the Steward, but it would have poisoned his relationship with the Wise.

[Fordim Hedgethistle]

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

So, the most likely outcome would be a conflict between Saruman's forces and those of Sauron. . . The interesting question is what do the good guys do while all this is going on?

Answer: die.

The geograpraphy of Middle-Earth is not kind to the forces of good: for Saruman and Sauron to fight each other, either one or both of them would first have to go through Minas Tirith and Rohan. By the time S & S were done with one another, there wouldn't be much left of the forces of Good!

[Tuor of Gondolin]

Not necessarily. There is one crucial favorable geographical feature for the good
guys, the White Mountains. Assuming a fairly evenly divided bad guys (with
Saruman holding the ring but unsure of how to effectively control it) Rohan can
withdraw to mountain strongholds and across the Isen, and Gondor to South Gondor. If they beat off the corsairs there could even be effective coordination to the west between Gondor and Rohan, and Mordor forces would be
stretched between defending Mordor, threatening the good guys and attacking
Saruman. It could be a long, nasty war of attrition- especially if there was some
peripheral Lorien intervention and Saruman/Sauron fighting spread to the fringes
of Fangorn and the ents felt it necessary to intervene.

[Thalionyulma]

Hmmmm, interesting thought....

If Saruman got hold of the Ring, yes, Sauron would waste no time in trying to take it from him. But then, isn't the Ring's main objective is to get back to its Master? How can one overthrow Sauron if the object of the Power was formed from his will? The more powerful the Ring's wielder, the greater the corruption.

Galadriel sensed this and was able to overcome the Ring's temptation.

But the original question was... "What would have Saruman done?"

In my humble opinion.... in light of what the Ring is capable of doing, Saruman would probably have forced his will among the people and try to "overthrow" Sauron. But in the process he would have become a dictator, becoming a shadow of the Dark Lord. And when Saruman, thinking he was in control, would eventually succumb to Sauron's will. He would be in a similar situation as Denethor with the Palantiri. Sauron letting him have his way (or so it may seem), letting him see what the Dark Lord wanted him to see... but feeding him with lies until he was totally corrupted.

And the final conclusion? If the Ring had fallen into Saruman's hand... it would have found its way straight to Sauron.

[Zebedee]

But the Ring could be used to over through Saroun. When Aragorn confronted him with the Palantir, Sauron hastened his attack on Minas Tirith to destroy Aragorn's power base before he could get there. He thought Aragorn had the Ring, and though he would not have mastered it, Sauron wasn't a fool, and he didn't want give him time.

[Voralphion]

Although it may have taken him a while, Saruman would have been able to master the ring and in that would have overthrown Sauron. Having mastered hte ring he would have been able to take control of Sauron's forces, including the nazgul and would have defeated the forces of good. The result would have been the same as if Sauron had regained the ring except the power would have been in Isenguard not Mordor.