Did Bill Ferny die? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 10-06-2004, 04:58 AM

I think you are referring to something which I am not, thus I shall probe no more.

We have entered murky waters. What can we be sure of in the text? Perhaps we can trust what is given to us at the end of the Silmarillion. There it tells us that there was a great War and it also says that Frodo the Halfling did indeed cast the Ring into the Fire. Who wrote this? By which tales and songs has this final story come to our ears?

Also, note the discrepancy in the final analysis. Perhaps Gollum never existed either?

Gothbogg the Ripper · 10-06-2004, 05:53 AM

Man, I've been reading all these posts and it's some deep stuff indeed, I wouldn't really call Frodo "mad", I feel a better word would be "traumatised", I think it's quite clear to see in the book as after he destroyed the Ring he used to finger and hold a white pendant that hung around his neck (I'm not 100% sure of all the details of whether or not it was a pendant or a jewel so please correct me if I'm mistaken), this sounds like the acts of a deeply disturbed mind albeit one that is not completely mad.
As for Frodo making everything up in a sort of delerium, I'm not entirely sure what to think although I hope it wasn't as I like the real story better.

Mithalwen · 10-06-2004, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

We have entered murky waters. What can we be sure of in the text? Perhaps we can trust what is given to us at the end of the Silmarillion. There it tells us that there was a great War and it also says that Frodo the Halfling did indeed cast the Ring into the Fire. Who wrote this? By which tales and songs has this final story come to our ears?

Also, note the discrepancy in the final analysis. Perhaps Gollum never existed either?

Are you saying that C R Tolkien is a more reliable historian of Middle Earth than JRRT? An interesting hypotheses ... many of us hold that the old boy *whispers* was making the WHOLE thing up*..

The jewel was agift of Queen Arwen ... some sort of Elvish crystal therapy I believe...

Lachwen · 10-06-2004, 04:58 PM

So we are to assume, then, that the Elves began the whole New-Age thing of using crystals cure bodily ills? Hmmm....that might explain Celebrimbor's obsession with the Three Rings: they had the best crystals in them. Or maybe the best for him; jewelsmith that he was, he probably got terrible tension headaches from concentrating on his work all the time. Maybe he made the Three just to get rid of the headaches...

Nilpaurion Felagund · 10-06-2004, 10:32 PM

I think the whole solution to this story revolves on that.

Bilbo's story of There and Back Again was obviously true, as no-one in his right mind would write the word "grocer" on an autobiography (if I have to, I'll use the phrase "commodities trader"), not even Mad Baggins in his right mind.

OK, that's a metaphysical dislocation there. Mad Baggins is not in his right mind. How do you resolve this?

Mad Baggins is in his right mind. He's mad.

Anywhen, Frodo's crystal might be some sort of hallucinogen, marketed by the Elves so they could subjugate the lowly Men once more. Mwahahahaha!!!

Oh, no. Now he's mad.
Wait, how about Bill Ferny.

Bill Ferny is an Elvish propaganda, an allegory for all Mankind. We are gonna have a pony kick y'all in your Shires! MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

Forgive him. He's mad that way.

MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 10-07-2004, 06:32 AM

Bill Ferny, an allegory for all mankind? Who would have thought that Bill Ferny would turn out to be arguably the most culturally significant character in the entire works of J.R.R.Tolkien? A year ago I would have scoffed at the idea, but now after following the logic, it appears a strong case.

But wait, if Bill Ferny represents the enslaved Man, who do the Elves represent?

Mithalwen · 10-07-2004, 12:20 PM

Well evolutiuonarily speaking - a low down, sneaky sort with an awareness of the way the wind blows and an eye for the main chance is more likely to suvive than these high minded noble types.. cf the Blackadder dynasty...?

Lachwen · 10-07-2004, 01:08 PM

You know, Mithalwen, never before I found this board would I have imagined there would be any parallels between Middle-earth and The Blackadder Chronicles. Now I have a mental image of Celeborn shouting "Shizzik! Fresh horses!"

10-06-2004, 04:58 AM	#1
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	I think you are referring to something which I am not, thus I shall probe no more. We have entered murky waters. What can we be sure of in the text? Perhaps we can trust what is given to us at the end of the Silmarillion. There it tells us that there was a great War and it also says that Frodo the Halfling did indeed cast the Ring into the Fire. Who wrote this? By which tales and songs has this final story come to our ears? Also, note the discrepancy in the final analysis. Perhaps Gollum never existed either? __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

10-06-2004, 05:53 AM	#2
Gothbogg the Ripper Wight Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Southend,U.K Posts: 113	Man, I've been reading all these posts and it's some deep stuff indeed, I wouldn't really call Frodo "mad", I feel a better word would be "traumatised", I think it's quite clear to see in the book as after he destroyed the Ring he used to finger and hold a white pendant that hung around his neck (I'm not 100% sure of all the details of whether or not it was a pendant or a jewel so please correct me if I'm mistaken), this sounds like the acts of a deeply disturbed mind albeit one that is not completely mad. As for Frodo making everything up in a sort of delerium, I'm not entirely sure what to think although I hope it wasn't as I like the real story better. __________________ Thanks for abandoning me for three years guys. I really enjoyed being a total outcast.

10-06-2004, 04:58 PM	#4
Lachwen Wight Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Greenwood the Great. Posts: 115	So we are to assume, then, that the Elves began the whole New-Age thing of using crystals cure bodily ills? Hmmm....that might explain Celebrimbor's obsession with the Three Rings: they had the best crystals in them. Or maybe the best for him; jewelsmith that he was, he probably got terrible tension headaches from concentrating on his work all the time. Maybe he made the Three just to get rid of the headaches... __________________ "'...Home is the sailor, home from the sea, And the hunter home from the hill.'"

10-06-2004, 10:32 PM	#5
Nilpaurion Felagund Scion of The Faithful Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: The brink, where hope and despair are akin. [The Philippines] Posts: 5,312	Frodo's crystal. I think the whole solution to this story revolves on that. Bilbo's story of There and Back Again was obviously true, as no-one in his right mind would write the word "grocer" on an autobiography (if I have to, I'll use the phrase "commodities trader"), not even Mad Baggins in his right mind. OK, that's a metaphysical dislocation there. Mad Baggins is not in his right mind. How do you resolve this? Mad Baggins is in his right mind. He's mad. Anywhen, Frodo's crystal might be some sort of hallucinogen, marketed by the Elves so they could subjugate the lowly Men once more. Mwahahahaha!!! Oh, no. Now he's mad. Wait, how about Bill Ferny. Bill Ferny is an Elvish propaganda, an allegory for all Mankind. We are gonna have a pony kick y'all in your Shires! MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Forgive him. He's mad that way. MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! __________________ フェンリス鴨 (Fenrisu Kamo) The plot, cut, defeated. I intend to copy this sig forever - so far so good...

10-07-2004, 06:32 AM	#6
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	Bill Ferny, an allegory for all mankind? Who would have thought that Bill Ferny would turn out to be arguably the most culturally significant character in the entire works of J.R.R.Tolkien? A year ago I would have scoffed at the idea, but now after following the logic, it appears a strong case. But wait, if Bill Ferny represents the enslaved Man, who do the Elves represent? __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

10-07-2004, 12:20 PM	#7
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,461	Well evolutiuonarily speaking - a low down, sneaky sort with an awareness of the way the wind blows and an eye for the main chance is more likely to suvive than these high minded noble types.. cf the Blackadder dynasty...? __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

10-07-2004, 01:08 PM	#8
Lachwen Wight Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Greenwood the Great. Posts: 115	You know, Mithalwen, never before I found this board would I have imagined there would be any parallels between Middle-earth and The Blackadder Chronicles. Now I have a mental image of Celeborn shouting "Shizzik! Fresh horses!" __________________ "'...Home is the sailor, home from the sea, And the hunter home from the hill.'"