The Importance of Being Denethor

[Boromir88]

First off I'd like to say Kransha that was a very well, thought out, argument. I've always been one to defend Denethor, so here's a few things I would like to add.

Denethor cared deeply for Gondor. As Tuor pointed out he made very little mistakes when it came to the defenses of Gondor. One mistake I thought, would have been of course him sending out Faramir to Osgiliath. Other then that, he had the defenses set up when Gandalf arrived, the defenses were already set up and coming in, plus not to mention the beacons were lit. PJ's slaughter of these scenes does tend to get me mad, it absolutely destroys the real Denethor. As you've said, people just say he's a terrible man, and I of course get mad at that. From what I understand, PJ's excuse for making Denethor Gandalf's little boxing bag was because he wanted to show that Gondor needed a king, and he wanted to build up that "need" for Aragorn.

But, did Gondor really need a king? I admit Aragorn would be a much better ruler then Denethor, there is no doubt about that. But, that doesn't mean Gondor "needed" a king.

Gondor would not have prevailed without Denethor, and it would not have prevailed without Gandalf. Here is a thread of mine that goes more into the details. Basically, just saying Denethor was the brains behind the defenses, Gandalf was more of that influential pep-talker.

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=10922

On to some of the other points, I love the part in the book when Denethor shows his sword in defiance of Sauron. As you put it, Denethor seems to be portrayed as "noble" and "valiant," not some crooked, scowling, villain.

The Siege of Gondor:
Denethor lauged bitterly. "Nay not yet, Master Peregrin! He will not come save only to triumph over me when all is won. He uses others as his weapons. So do all great lords, if they are wise, Master Halfling. Or why should I sit here in my tower and thing, and watch, and wait, spending even my sons? For I can still wield a brand."
He stood up and cast open his long black cloak, and behold! He was clad in mail beneath, and girt with a long sword, great-hilted in a sheath of black and silver. "Thus have I walked, and thus now for many years have I slept," he said, "lest with age the body should grow soft and timid."

This part, we can also learn a lot about Denethor. He's still in good physical shape at AGE 88, which is considerably old, if he carries a full suit of mail and a sword. We get to see him defy the dark-lord, showing he's still willing to fight, and if Sauron wants to win it will be over his dead body.

Tuor, thanks for providing us with that quote, here is a little more just to support it.

Appendix A
The Stewards
Thus pride increased in Denethor together with despair, until he saw in all the deeds of that time only a single combat between the Lord of the White Tower and the Lord of Barad-dur, and mistrusted all others who resisted Sauron, unless they served himself alone.

Now a few notes on Aragorn's claim to the throne. You bring up a nice point Kransha, how the council rejected Arvedui's claim. I suspect, if Aragorn HADN'T of won the hearts of the people, and been victorious at the Morannon, and Pelennor, if he just simply came in and had a rightful claim, Denethor's chances would look good. I say this because in one of Tolkien's earlier drafts, Boromir lived, and went to Minas Tirith with Aragorn. Aragorn then tried to reclaim the throne, in which case Boromir objected, and ARAGORN KILLED BOROMIR! So obviously, Aragorn feared his claim would be rejected if someone like a Boromir doesn't support it, so he kills Boromir. Now, Tolkien threw out that idea and I'm glad he did. My point being, if Aragorn just simply pulled an Arvedui, and proven his lineage Denethor's chances were really good. But, since Aragorn was victorious, and proved himself in battle, he won the hearts of many Gondorians, and his chances would have been far greater.