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Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page |
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#1 | ||
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Illustrious Ulair
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
Posts: 4,240
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Its certainly interesting that Tolkien would have a monster of shadow (=choke-damp?) & flame (=fire-damp?) as Durin’s bane, as these are the very things, along with falls, which miners, like the dwarves, would have feared most. The Balrog itself has been discussed almost to death, but I think that’s because the encounter between it & Gandalf is so symbolic, & Gandalf’s statements so enigmatic - especially to anyone who has not read the Silmarillion - what is the ‘Secret Fire’? And why is it that the ‘Dark Fire’ cannot pass it - because Gandalf seems not to be bragging here about his superior strength, but rather making a metaphysical statement of fact. But i won’t go any further into that at the moment. I would like to quote from an article in a recent Amon Hen, about Tolkien’s use of adjectives: Quote:
One final observation - this is the first chapter without any verse. |
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#2 | |
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Princess of Skwerlz
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles)
Posts: 7,500
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'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...' |
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#3 |
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Late Istar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,224
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This may just be my favorite chapter in the book. The image that sticks in one's mind is of course Gandalf and the Balrog facing each other on the bridge. But that encounter is itself very brief - it only takes up about two pages. Actually, the chapter as a whole is rather short - eleven and a half pages in my edition - despite the fairly high number of events that occur. There is the reading and discussion of the Book of Mazarbul, the preparation for an attack, the attack itself, flight from the chamber, the bridge, the confrontation with the Balrog, and finally flight into the sunlight. This is in sharp contrast to the preceding chapters, which generally dealt with one obstacle at a time.
I recently had the experience of listening to The Fellowship of the Ring on tape. For the most part, I found that I preferred the written version - passages that came across as quite beautiful in writing sometimes fell flat. The one major exception was this chapter. There's something in not just the literal pacing (i.e. of the story) but also in the pacing of the words and sentences that is really drawn out when it's read aloud. Perhaps part of it is the continual "Doom doom". But there is also a shortening of sentences and an intensification of language as the climax of the chapter approaches. Whatever it is, the chapter flows inexorably toward the confrontation. As Davem pointed out, few adjectives are used in the confrontation. And yet it comes across to me very vividly. I feel as if I can see every detail of the scene with perfect clarity. I don't know whether others share this experience, or whether its just me. |
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#4 |
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A Mere Boggart
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: under the bed
Posts: 4,737
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I've got a few things to add to the discussion, not least because I find this a terrifying chapter, but first, a quick post about the pages from the Book of Mazarbul. A new edition of LOTR is soon to be published (it was mentioned here) which includes the reproductions of these pages, as Tolkien originally intended (the costs were too highg when LOTR first went to print). Well, if anyone either cannot afford or cannot wait for the new edition, I recently got hold of a 2005 50th anniversary Tolkien calendar, which has these reproductions printed within.
Anyway, a quick thought. Davem, the comments about the 'fire-damp' experienced by the miners was fascinating, and it's entirely possible that Tolkien would have known about such ideas, but for another reason, maybe? What made me think this was his experiences in the trenches - possibly he had some experience of the miners who dug underground tunnels (as seen in Birdsong) during WWI and had heard their tales and superstitions?
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Gordon's alive!
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#5 | |||
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Bittersweet Symphony
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: On the jolly starship Enterprise
Posts: 1,814
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In this chapter the strengths and weaknesses of many characters are revealed.
Frodo shows his strength in the Chamber of Mazarbul by attacking the troll, and without even realizing it at first. Quote:
Sam, too, shows his ability as a fighter: Quote:
Gandalf, being one of the central characters in this chapter, shows his strength through being able to fend off the Balrog, but we understand that his power has limits when he returns to his companions after trying to seal the Chamber. He says that he has met his match, and that he is "rather shaken." We can only imagine what kind of force it could take to shake someone so steadfast and powerful as Gandalf, which foreshadows the future danger to come. Legolas, who has previously seemed to be without fault as far as being collected under pressure, drops his arrow in fear of the Balrog. To add a bit of levity to this discussion, I'd like to point out this lovely line: Quote:
Since the Book of Mazarbul is uncovered in this chapter, and Lalwendë mentioned that some of the pages will be in a future edition, here's a link to pictures of a few of them: Leaves From the Book of Mazarbul. It may, for some crazy reason, ask you for a user name and password --the site has never done this to me before, but today it did. Just type Tolkien for both. |
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#6 | |
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Illustrious Ulair
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
Posts: 4,240
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Spellcasting appears to work by a kind of 'hypnosis' - not simply hypnosis of people, but a kind of hypnosis of reality itself. Gandalf seems to have 'hypnotised' the door into being locked, by casting a 'spell' - sort of 'telling it a new story' - in the 'old' story it was unlocked (unlockable). Gandalf tells a new 'story', in which it is locked. Then the Balrog comes, & casts a counter spell, tells a new 'story' in which it is not locked. Gandalf & the Balrog contend - as do Finrod & Sauron, & the most powerful magician (ie the 'best', most convincing storyteller) wins out & takes control of 'reality' - from that point the world story carries on, including the changes the storyteller has made. This is not original, actually - we find this kind of wizardly conflict in The Mabinogion, The Kalevala, The Eddas, etc. But we also have something different here - the Word of Command. Here we move away from the 'story' that seeks to convince both other minds & the physical matter of Arda to something else, a different kind of power - one that does not attempt to convince but to coerce. Gandalf attempts to Command the world to change rather than persuade it to. In effect, in the first kind of magic we have the wizard still 'within' the world, trying to convince reality to alter, in the second kind its as if he steps outside the world, & force it to change into something else. Clearly in this case Gandalf is not up to the task, or not used to this way of working, because the door, rather than obeying his Command, simply explodes. I think this maybe sheds some light on his two confrontations with Saruman - both begin with 'spellcasting' - both wizards attempt to 'persuade' the other into adopting their particular view of 'reality', but then the confrontations move on - in the first it appears it is Saruman who speaks the word of Command - he commands Gandalf to stay in Orthanc - in the second it is Gandalf who speaks the word of Command - Commanding Saruman to return to the balcony & commanding his staff to break. Too rushed - but perhaps others can add somethinb to this idea - or pull it appart! |
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#7 |
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Pilgrim Soul
Join Date: May 2004
Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle...
Posts: 9,461
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Davem, your post has really made me think about "magic" in Middle Earth but since my thoughts are rapidly going off topic (and hvaing failed to find a relevant thread) I will start a new one in books.
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“But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.”
Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace |
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