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Old 10-11-2004, 06:25 AM   #1
Estelyn Telcontar
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Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!
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One final observation - this is the first chapter without any verse.
Verrry interesting indeed, davem! I think it has a reason in the darkness of the situation and the active fighting. It takes leisure to produce poetry; a poem about danger will not normally be composed while the situation is still in progress, since all concentration is needed for the escape. The next poem is recited on the outskirts of Lothlórien, in relative safety. And the mourning poem for Gandalf is composed there - isn't there a line that goes something like "My grief is too fresh (or deep) for words"? It takes time for such deep-cutting events to settle enough to be put into poetry.
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Old 10-11-2004, 09:27 AM   #2
Aiwendil
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This may just be my favorite chapter in the book. The image that sticks in one's mind is of course Gandalf and the Balrog facing each other on the bridge. But that encounter is itself very brief - it only takes up about two pages. Actually, the chapter as a whole is rather short - eleven and a half pages in my edition - despite the fairly high number of events that occur. There is the reading and discussion of the Book of Mazarbul, the preparation for an attack, the attack itself, flight from the chamber, the bridge, the confrontation with the Balrog, and finally flight into the sunlight. This is in sharp contrast to the preceding chapters, which generally dealt with one obstacle at a time.

I recently had the experience of listening to The Fellowship of the Ring on tape. For the most part, I found that I preferred the written version - passages that came across as quite beautiful in writing sometimes fell flat. The one major exception was this chapter. There's something in not just the literal pacing (i.e. of the story) but also in the pacing of the words and sentences that is really drawn out when it's read aloud. Perhaps part of it is the continual "Doom doom". But there is also a shortening of sentences and an intensification of language as the climax of the chapter approaches. Whatever it is, the chapter flows inexorably toward the confrontation.

As Davem pointed out, few adjectives are used in the confrontation. And yet it comes across to me very vividly. I feel as if I can see every detail of the scene with perfect clarity. I don't know whether others share this experience, or whether its just me.
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Old 10-11-2004, 12:52 PM   #3
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Lalwendë is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Lalwendë is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
I've got a few things to add to the discussion, not least because I find this a terrifying chapter, but first, a quick post about the pages from the Book of Mazarbul. A new edition of LOTR is soon to be published (it was mentioned here) which includes the reproductions of these pages, as Tolkien originally intended (the costs were too highg when LOTR first went to print). Well, if anyone either cannot afford or cannot wait for the new edition, I recently got hold of a 2005 50th anniversary Tolkien calendar, which has these reproductions printed within.

Anyway, a quick thought. Davem, the comments about the 'fire-damp' experienced by the miners was fascinating, and it's entirely possible that Tolkien would have known about such ideas, but for another reason, maybe? What made me think this was his experiences in the trenches - possibly he had some experience of the miners who dug underground tunnels (as seen in Birdsong) during WWI and had heard their tales and superstitions?
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Old 10-11-2004, 08:57 PM   #4
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In this chapter the strengths and weaknesses of many characters are revealed.

Frodo shows his strength in the Chamber of Mazarbul by attacking the troll, and without even realizing it at first.

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Suddenly, and to his own surprise, Frodo felt a hot wrath blaze up in his heart. "The Shire!" he cried, and springing beside Boromir, he stooped, and stabbed with Sting at the hideous foot.
It is as though he does so unconsciously, as if he suddenly understands the part he must play to aid his companions.

Sam, too, shows his ability as a fighter:

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A quick duck had saved him; and he had felled his orc: a sturdy thrust with his Barrow-blade. A fire was smouldering in his brown eyes that would have made Ted Sandyman step backwards, if he had seen it.
A far cry from just chucking an apple at Sandyman, as we saw earlier in FotR!

Gandalf, being one of the central characters in this chapter, shows his strength through being able to fend off the Balrog, but we understand that his power has limits when he returns to his companions after trying to seal the Chamber. He says that he has met his match, and that he is "rather shaken." We can only imagine what kind of force it could take to shake someone so steadfast and powerful as Gandalf, which foreshadows the future danger to come.

Legolas, who has previously seemed to be without fault as far as being collected under pressure, drops his arrow in fear of the Balrog. To add a bit of levity to this discussion, I'd like to point out this lovely line:

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"Ai! ai!" wailed Legolas. "A Balrog! A Balrog is come!"
That's all well and good on a page, but say it aloud and it just makes you chuckle a bit.

Since the Book of Mazarbul is uncovered in this chapter, and Lalwendë mentioned that some of the pages will be in a future edition, here's a link to pictures of a few of them: Leaves From the Book of Mazarbul. It may, for some crazy reason, ask you for a user name and password --the site has never done this to me before, but today it did. Just type Tolkien for both.
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Old 10-12-2004, 02:48 AM   #5
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davem is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.davem is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
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Gimli took his arm & helped him down to a seat on the step. 'What happened away up there at the door?' he asked. 'Did you meet the beaterof drums?'
'I do not know,' answered Gandalf. 'But I found myself faced by something that I have not met before.I could think of nothing to do but to try & put a shutting spell on the door. I know many; but to do things of that kind rightly takes time, & even then the door can be broken by strength...
Then something came into the chamber- I felt it through the door, & the orcs themselves were afraid & fell silent.It laid hold of the iron ring, & then it percieved me & my spell.
What it was I cannot guess, but I have never felt such a challenge.The counter spell was terrible. It nearly broke me. For an instant the door left my control & began to open.I had to speak a word of Command. That proved too great a strain. The door broke in pieces.'
This is interesting, as it seems to show two kinds of magic at work - spell-casting, & the word of Command. It seems that casting spells is easier than speaking a word of Command. It appears the latter is reserved for extreme circumstances.

Spellcasting appears to work by a kind of 'hypnosis' - not simply hypnosis of people, but a kind of hypnosis of reality itself. Gandalf seems to have 'hypnotised' the door into being locked, by casting a 'spell' - sort of 'telling it a new story' - in the 'old' story it was unlocked (unlockable). Gandalf tells a new 'story', in which it is locked. Then the Balrog comes, & casts a counter spell, tells a new 'story' in which it is not locked. Gandalf & the Balrog contend - as do Finrod & Sauron, & the most powerful magician (ie the 'best', most convincing storyteller) wins out & takes control of 'reality' - from that point the world story carries on, including the changes the storyteller has made.

This is not original, actually - we find this kind of wizardly conflict in The Mabinogion, The Kalevala, The Eddas, etc.

But we also have something different here - the Word of Command. Here we move away from the 'story' that seeks to convince both other minds & the physical matter of Arda to something else, a different kind of power - one that does not attempt to convince but to coerce. Gandalf attempts to Command the world to change rather than persuade it to.

In effect, in the first kind of magic we have the wizard still 'within' the world, trying to convince reality to alter, in the second kind its as if he steps outside the world, & force it to change into something else. Clearly in this case Gandalf is not up to the task, or not used to this way of working, because the door, rather than obeying his Command, simply explodes.

I think this maybe sheds some light on his two confrontations with Saruman - both begin with 'spellcasting' - both wizards attempt to 'persuade' the other into adopting their particular view of 'reality', but then the confrontations move on - in the first it appears it is Saruman who speaks the word of Command - he commands Gandalf to stay in Orthanc - in the second it is Gandalf who speaks the word of Command - Commanding Saruman to return to the balcony & commanding his staff to break.

Too rushed - but perhaps others can add somethinb to this idea - or pull it appart!
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Old 10-12-2004, 12:18 PM   #6
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Davem, your post has really made me think about "magic" in Middle Earth but since my thoughts are rapidly going off topic (and hvaing failed to find a relevant thread) I will start a new one in books. .
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Old 10-12-2004, 05:58 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Aiwendil
Actually, the chapter as a whole is rather short - eleven and a half pages in my edition - despite the fairly high number of events that occur. There is the reading and discussion of the Book of Mazarbul, the preparation for an attack, the attack itself, flight from the chamber, the bridge, the confrontation with the Balrog, and finally flight into the sunlight. This is in sharp contrast to the preceding chapters, which generally dealt with one obstacle at a time.
Indeed, the action in this Chapter is relentless. Even the reading of the Book of Mazarbul, which is (in one sense) exposition, concerns a tale of conquest, tragic death and desperate defence. In previous Chapters, the "action sequences" have generally taken place before or after periods of travelling conveyed through descriptive passages interspersed with dialogue. But here, the dialogue and descriptive passages are intimately connected with the action, which is at the fore throughout the whole Chapter. To me, it represents a culmination of the tension that has been building up at least since the Fellowship left Rivendell (and arguably before). While the Fellowship has met various foes and challenges on the way, this Chapter brings its greatest challenge yet, one which (as Encaitare notes) instils the fear in even its strongest members and, indeed, claims the strongest of them.


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Originally Posted by Encaitare
Gandalf, being one of the central characters in this chapter, shows his strength through being able to fend off the Balrog, but we understand that his power has limits when he returns to his companions after trying to seal the Chamber. He says that he has met his match, and that he is "rather shaken." We can only imagine what kind of force it could take to shake someone so steadfast and powerful as Gandalf, which foreshadows the future danger to come.
As in the previous Chapter, we see that Gandalf is not omnipotent. There is a power here (subservient, or at least inferior, to Sauron), which can challenge him. Again, this helps to bring home how desperate their situation is. Gandalf cannot protect them all the time and, indeed, he no longer remains with them to do so by the end of the Chapter.


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Originally Posted by davem
To what extent these ideas affected Tolkien in the depiction of the Balrog - at least as far as his choice of having a Balrog present in Moria - is impossible to answer. I think that someone as interested as Tolkien was in folklore, would have been aware of Sikes’ book, & of the phenomenon of fire-damp (the explosive gas which builds up in mineworkings, which is mostly methane) & choke-damp (the poisonous gas, principally carbon di-oxide).
I don't doubt that you are correct, davem. But it does seem to me that Tolkien is, with the Balrog, tapping into something much more immediate to his readers. The impression conveyed is of a demon from hell. Practically every representation of the Balrog that I have seen, courtesy of numerous illustrators and down to Jackson's films, portrays it in demonic form. Tolkien never mentions that it has horns or other classic demonic features, and yet they inevitably turn up in visual representations of it. I don't think that this is mere coincidence and it is only partly explained by later artists having been influenced by earlier ones. It is the (tantalisingly limited) description which Tolkien gives that conveys this impression. All he needs to tell us is that it is a dark creature of shadow wreathed in flame. We fill in the gaps ourselves.

Some other thoughts that occurred to me while reading this Chapter:

The opening passage, as Frodo ponders Bilbo's friendship with Balin, reminds us of Bilbo's adventures and brings home to us that this is a very different, much darker adventure, indeed. The serious nature of the story that Tolkien is now telling is, I think, emphasised by the contrast.

Another contrast between the story told in The Hobbit and that being told here occurs in the description of the Orcs. While the Goblins that Bilbo met were undoubtedly cruel and brutal, their evil nature was "played down" for the benefit of the intended audience. They seemed more like the nasty creatures of children's fairy-tales. Here, we meet Orcs for the first time in this book, and we are left in no doubt that they are highly dangerous and mercilessly cruel foes. The words used to name them, "Orcs" and "Uruks" are much less familar and (in a sense) "comfortable" than the word "Goblin". The first time they are mentioned is in reference to their scattered weapons in the Chamber of Mazarbul: "crooked" swords with "blackened" blades. But the most striking description is that of the Orc chieftain:


Quote:
His broad flat face was swart, his eyes were like coals, and his tongue was red: he wielded a great spear.
In just one sentence, Tolkien sums up the ugliness, inhumanity and cold cruelty of Orc kind. And this chieftain is clearly powerful. Despite being less than man-size, he is able, with one thrust of his shield, to throw Boromir (a man who we have come to associate with physical strength) to the ground. These are no fairy-tale Goblins!

Interestingly, like the Watcher, the Orc chieftain makes straight for Frodo. Presumably, he is drawn to the Ring in the same way that the Orcs were drawn to Isildur in the tale of The Disaster of the Gladden Fields in Unfinished Tales. I wonder if there's any significance in the fact that it was Frodo who landed the first (successful) blow of the battle.

One last random thought on Orcs. Tolkien describes their laughter as "like the fall of sliding stones". It was another falling stone which, arguably, alerted them to the Fellowship's presence in Moria. This description therefore links Pippin's "misdemeanour" at the well with the Orcs' attack.

I think that it's notable that Tolkien spends a (relatively) long time having Gandalf read to the Fellowship from the Book of Mazarbul. Tolkien could simply have explained the fate of Balin's expedition in a few lines, and yet he goes into it at some length here (while at the same time giving us only tantalising glimpses of the events relayed). It seems to me that, once again, Tolkien is seeking to convey the sense of history. Moria is not just a location for an eventful passage in the Fellowship's journey. It is, within the story, a very real place with a very real history. Presumably, this was his reason also for wishing to include reproductions of the pages. (Thanks for the link, Encaitare. I shall have to study that at length. )

Final thought: It's a nice touch that Legolas and Gimli echo the words of the Book of Mazarbul when the Orcs attack: "They are coming!" cried Legolas. "We cannot get out," said Gimli.
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