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Old 11-02-2004, 09:41 PM   #1
Lush
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Well, I always knew that certain Neanderthals have secretly thrived among us...But our Hobbit relatives have been a pleasant surprise. This gives me new ammunition for certain height-related jokes. Thank you.
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Old 03-04-2005, 09:26 AM   #2
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I've just seen an update to the news story about 'real hobbits' late last year. You can read it here, if you are interested.
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Old 04-04-2005, 06:57 PM   #3
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The new issue of the national Georgraphic (April 2005) has more information about these "hobbit" people. So if you want to know more pick up a copy.
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Old 10-11-2005, 10:52 AM   #4
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Another "hobbit" found:

Quote:
Anthropologists Uncover Ancient Jawbone

By JOSEPH B. VERRENGIA, AP Science Writer
1 hour, 31 minutes ago


Scientists digging in a remote Indonesian cave have uncovered a jaw bone that they say adds more evidence that a tiny prehistoric Hobbit-like species once existed.

The jaw is from the ninth individual believed to have lived as recently as 12,000 years ago. The bones are in a wet cave on the island of Flores in the eastern limb of the Indonesian archipelago, near Australia.

The research team which reported the original sensational finding nearly a year ago strongly believes that the skeletons belong to a separate species of early human that shared Earth with modern humans far more recently than anyone thought.

The bones have enchanted many anthropologists who have come to accept the interpretation of these diminutive skeletons marooned on Flores with dwarf elephants and other miniaturized animals, giving the discovery a kind of fairy tale quality.

But a vocal scientific minority insists the specimens are nothing more than the bones of modern humans that suffered from microencephaly, a broadly defined genetic disorder that results in small brain size. The latest discovery on Flores to be published in Thursday's issue of the journal Nature does not change their minds, they said, with one critic describing the latest artifacts as "pretty scrappy."

And, at least two groups of opponents have submitted their own studies to other leading scientific journals refuting the Flores work.

The result is a controversy unlike any other in the often-contentious study of human origins. Those caught in the middle say the debate is a real test for what we know about human evolution.

Daniel E. Lieberman of the Peabody Museum at Harvard said the specimens are so unusual that they deserve a more detailed analysis in order to adequately answer the critics.

"Many syndromes can cause microencephaly and dwarfism and they all need to be considered," said Lieberman, who wrote a commentary in Nature. "The findings are not only astonishing, but also exciting because of the questions they raise."

In the latest Nature study, the same team of Australian and Indonesian scientists working in trenches dug in Liang Bua cave found a variety of additional bones at various depths, suggesting the cave had been occupied for tens of thousands of years by several generations.

The most prominent specimen discovered in the latest batch is the lower jaw bone from a separate individual. Dating of charcoal nearby in the excavation layer suggests it is 15,000 years old.

They also found the right arm of the 18,000-year old female announced last year, as well as fragments of other skeletons.

The jaw reported now has a weaker chin with smaller tooth dimensions than last year's primary specimen, but otherwise shares the same characteristics.

Other artifacts in the cave include cut and charred bones of stegodon, a prehistoric pygmy elephant, and other animals, as well as a variety of sophisticated stone tools. The researchers said the artifacts offer further proof that the cave's tiny inhabitants were capable of advanced thinking and behavior, like cooperative hunting.

Critics say they have many lingering questions about the Flores discoveries.

"This paper doesn't clinch it. I feel strongly that people are glossing over the problems with this interpretation," said Robert Martin, a biological anthropologist and provost of the Field Museum of Natural History in Chicago.

In Martin's view, the more likely scenario is that the specimens belonged to an extended family of modern humans, some of whom suffered from microencephaly, which often runs in families.

The critics challenge the reliability of the dating of bones and artifacts because only a few pieces of charcoal — presumably from fire pits — were analyzed. Also, water drainage may have helped jumble the older specimens with the more recent.

And, they argue, the stone tools found are of the type known to be made only by modern humans. The brain size of the specimens found suggest it's unlikely such a people could have used the tools.
Note the anachronistically advanced tools found in the hobbit-hole--er, "cave". Perhaps we'll soon have archaeological proof for hobbit umbrellas and mantle-clocks.
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Old 10-12-2005, 02:23 AM   #5
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I saw a good Horizon documentary about this a couple of weeks ago, which went into depth about the scientists who are sceptics; it seems that the pro-Hobbit party have since been keen to find more evidence so it will be interesting to see if this proves that the little folk did exist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Underhill
Note the anachronistically advanced tools found in the hobbit-hole--er, "cave". Perhaps we'll soon have archaeological proof for hobbit umbrellas and mantle-clocks.
What if they find a skeleton with nine fingers?
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Old 10-12-2005, 05:34 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lalwendë
What if they find a skeleton with nine fingers?
That's about as likely as finding evidence of an unwinged balrog!
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Old 10-12-2005, 09:11 AM   #7
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And another article, which I recieved from the mailing list of The Finnish Tolkien Society:

Quote:
Bone of Hobbit-like species uncovered

Tuesday, October 11, 2005 Posted: 2012 GMT (0412 HKT)

-- Scientists say they have found more bones in an Indonesian cave that
offer additional evidence of a second human species -- short and hobbit-
like -- that roamed the Earth the same time as modern man.

But the vocal scientific minority that has challenged that conclusion
since the discovery of Homo floresiensis was announced last year remains
unconvinced.

The discovery of a jaw bone, to be reported in Thursday's issue of the
journal Nature, represents the ninth individual belonging to a group
believed to have lived as recently as 12,000 years ago. The bones are in a
wet cave on the island of Flores in the eastern limb of the Indonesian
archipelago, near Australia.

In 2004, scientists announced their original, sensational discovery of a
delicate skull and partial skeleton of a female, nicknamed "Hobbit" and
believed to be 18,000 years old. In addition, they found separate bones
and fragments of other individuals ranging in age from 12,000 to 95,000
years old.

The findings have ignited a controversy unlike any other in the often-
contentious study of human origins.

The tiny bones have enchanted many anthropologists who accept the
interpretation that these diminutive skeletons belonged to a remnant
population of prehistoric humans that were marooned on Flores with dwarf
elephants and other miniaturized animals, giving the discovery a kind of
fairy tale quality.

If true, the discovery grafts a strange and tangled evolutionary branch
near the very top of the human family tree.

The conventional view of human evolution is that several types of
primitive ape-like ancestors appeared and faded over a span of about 4.5
million years. Modern Homo sapiens developed about 100,000 years ago, and
quickly overtook other large-brained competitors like Homo erectus and
Neanderthals. Modern humans were thought to have roamed the Earth without
competition for at least the past 30,000 years.

Fully grown, Homo floresiensis would have stood about 3 feet tall, with a
brain about the size of a chimpanzee.

Its discoverers, led by Australian anthropologist Michael Morwood of the
University of New England, speculate it evolved from Homo erectus, which
had spread from Africa across Asia. They attribute its small size to its
isolation on an island.

However, the researchers acknowledge that the Hobbit shares a bizarre and
unexplained mixture of modern and primitive traits. For example, its long,
dangling arms were thought to have belonged only to much older prehuman
species that were confined to Africa.

A vocal scientific minority insists the Hobbit specimens do not represent
a new species at all. They believe the specimens are nothing more than the
bones of modern humans that suffered from microencephaly, a broadly
defined genetic disorder that results in small brain size and other
defects.

And, at least two groups of opponents have submitted their own studies to
other leading scientific journals refuting the Flores work.

"This paper doesn't clinch it. I feel strongly that people are glossing
over the problems with this interpretation," said Robert Martin, a
biological anthropologist and provost of the Field Museum of Natural
History in Chicago.

Those caught in the middle of the debate say it is a real test of what we
know about human evolution.

Daniel E. Lieberman of the Peabody Museum at Harvard said the specimens
are so unusual that they deserve a more detailed analysis in order to
adequately answer the critics' complaints.

"Many syndromes can cause microencephaly and dwarfism and they all need to
be considered," said Lieberman, who wrote a commentary in Nature. "The
findings are not only astonishing, but also exciting because of the
questions they raise."

In the latest Nature study, the same team of Australian and Indonesian
scientists working in Liang Bua cave on Flores report finding a variety of
additional bones buried at various depths.

Among them, bones from the right arm of the previously discovered 18,000-
year old female. They labeled her LB1.

And, they report finding the lower jaw bone that does not belong to any of
the previously discovered individuals. An analysis of firepit charcoal
found nearby in the excavation layer suggests the jawbone is 15,000 years
old. It suggests a weaker chin with smaller tooth dimensions than LB1, but
otherwise shares the same characteristics.

"They almost certainly belong to the same species," Lieberman concluded.
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Old 05-21-2006, 02:07 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fordim Hedgethistle
That's about as likely as finding evidence of an unwinged balrog!


That's about as likely as finding evidence of a balrog.
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Old 01-31-2007, 08:02 AM   #9
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Pipe Was she or wasn't she?

Controversy continues over the discovery of this new species, based largely it appears on the size of the brain and the particular nature of its structure.

Hobbit or not?

Interesting too how apparently these little people were wiped out by a volcanic eruption. Where are the Great Eagles when they are needed?
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Old 01-31-2007, 09:33 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bêthberry

Interesting too how apparently these little people were wiped out by a volcanic eruption. Where are the Great Eagles when they are needed?
That's a Deus Ex Machina for you...
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