The Ring and the other races - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Gurthang · 11-19-2004, 10:32 PM

I thought that Dragons had very strong wills, and could daunt even the toughest warriors just by gazing at them. I know they have the ability to cast spells with their eyes, and then almost control another's will. It would only make sense then that they had strong wills themselves. I could be wrong though.

the phantom · 11-19-2004, 11:50 PM

Yes, I'm sure dragons have very strong wills, but SP asked "What makes you think that the Dragon would have the strength of will to resist it?"

Just like Boromir has strong arms but he still can't beat a gorilla in arm-wrestling.

gorthaur_cruel · 11-25-2004, 06:07 AM

Elves; it is simple. Tolkien already laid out possible situations on how Elrond and Galadriel could've used the Ring. They'd eventually fall prey to the Ring.

Orcs, I think, would've actually tried to keep it for themselves. They are not wholly under Sauron's will. They only act under fear of Sauron and hatred of the Free Peoples. If they were given a power that (they think) would be enough to topple Sauron, they'd use it. One of the main reasons that Sauron used the Nazguls to hunt for the Ring was because he could be sure they wouldn't claim the Ring for their own (see Unfinished Tales). I'm not sure about Trolls...would they be smart enough?

However, what intrigues me is the possibilities of a Vala claiming the Ring...

The Ring was made by Sauron, so its power can't be greater than Sauron's original native strength, can it? So the question is, if somebody was more powerful than Sauron ever was, would he be able to truly master the One Ring and remain uncorrupted? After all, the Ring's corrupting power is essentially Sauron's own power acting.

So if Manwe somehow ended up with the Ring, I think that he could actually use its power for good. Would he be able to hallow it and make it 'pure'?

Saurreg · 11-25-2004, 08:27 AM

According to Letter No. 246 Elrond, Galadriel and Gandalf can possess the capability to destroy Sauron. But for the former two, to what extent will the Darklord's "destruction" be?

I can imagine the destruction of all of Mordor's forces, the death of Sauron's minions and perhaps the destruction of Sauron's own corporal body itself physically, but can the very essence of sauron be destroyed by elves with the ring? After all the darklord fled the cataclysm that was destruction of Numenor itself.

If the wielders of the ring are ultimately corrupted by the evil influence in the ring, does it mean that an essence of Sauron still survives in the end and wins? Or is the ring a independent source of evil by itself with or without Sauron?

gorthaur_cruel · 11-25-2004, 11:17 PM

I think that question can be answered by this from Tolkien:

Quote:

If Gandalf proved the victor, the result would have been for Sauron the same as the destruction of the Ring; for him it would have been destroyed, taken from him for ever. But the Ring and all its works would have endured. It would have been the master in the end.

01-10-2005, 07:53 PM

I don't think a Vala would have any use for the ring, it would be too feeble for them to bother with, kinda like a dragon with a bb gun.

Thinlómien · 01-25-2005, 05:21 AM

Dragons would of course taken the Ring, but considered it only as a part of their treasure, maybe a not even regarding it any higher than their other things, a ring is after all only a little bit of gold.
But in the other hand dragons are very clever. Maybe they would have used it. I don't know.

(I say them, because I speak about dragons generally, groupwork with the ring seems to be impossible... I just wanted to make it clear.)

11-19-2004, 10:32 PM	#1
Gurthang Sword of Spirit Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Oh, I'm around. Posts: 1,401	I thought that Dragons had very strong wills, and could daunt even the toughest warriors just by gazing at them. I know they have the ability to cast spells with their eyes, and then almost control another's will. It would only make sense then that they had strong wills themselves. I could be wrong though. __________________ I'm on a Mission from God.

11-19-2004, 11:50 PM	#2
the phantom Beloved Shadow Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: The Stadium Posts: 5,971	Yes, I'm sure dragons have very strong wills, but SP asked "What makes you think that the Dragon would have the strength of will to resist it?" Just like Boromir has strong arms but he still can't beat a gorilla in arm-wrestling. __________________ the phantom has posted. This thread is now important.

11-25-2004, 08:27 AM	#4
Saurreg Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: In self imposed exile... Posts: 465	According to Letter No. 246 Elrond, Galadriel and Gandalf can possess the capability to destroy Sauron. But for the former two, to what extent will the Darklord's "destruction" be? I can imagine the destruction of all of Mordor's forces, the death of Sauron's minions and perhaps the destruction of Sauron's own corporal body itself physically, but can the very essence of sauron be destroyed by elves with the ring? After all the darklord fled the cataclysm that was destruction of Numenor itself. If the wielders of the ring are ultimately corrupted by the evil influence in the ring, does it mean that an essence of Sauron still survives in the end and wins? Or is the ring a independent source of evil by itself with or without Sauron? __________________ "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. " ~Voltaire

11-25-2004, 06:07 AM	#3
gorthaur_cruel Haunting Spirit Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 92	Elves; it is simple. Tolkien already laid out possible situations on how Elrond and Galadriel could've used the Ring. They'd eventually fall prey to the Ring. Orcs, I think, would've actually tried to keep it for themselves. They are not wholly under Sauron's will. They only act under fear of Sauron and hatred of the Free Peoples. If they were given a power that (they think) would be enough to topple Sauron, they'd use it. One of the main reasons that Sauron used the Nazguls to hunt for the Ring was because he could be sure they wouldn't claim the Ring for their own (see Unfinished Tales). I'm not sure about Trolls...would they be smart enough? However, what intrigues me is the possibilities of a Vala claiming the Ring... The Ring was made by Sauron, so its power can't be greater than Sauron's original native strength, can it? So the question is, if somebody was more powerful than Sauron ever was, would he be able to truly master the One Ring and remain uncorrupted? After all, the Ring's corrupting power is essentially Sauron's own power acting. So if Manwe somehow ended up with the Ring, I think that he could actually use its power for good. Would he be able to hallow it and make it 'pure'?

01-10-2005, 07:53 PM	#6
Xajorkith Guest Posts: n/a	I don't think a Vala would have any use for the ring, it would be too feeble for them to bother with, kinda like a dragon with a bb gun.

01-25-2005, 05:21 AM	#7
Thinlómien Shady She-Penguin Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: In a far land beyond the Sea Posts: 8,093	Dragons would of course taken the Ring, but considered it only as a part of their treasure, maybe a not even regarding it any higher than their other things, a ring is after all only a little bit of gold. But in the other hand dragons are very clever. Maybe they would have used it. I don't know. (I say them, because I speak about dragons generally, groupwork with the ring seems to be impossible... I just wanted to make it clear.)