My Precious?

[Sapphire_Flame]

Does Gollum associate himself with the Ring in some strange way, to the point that in his mind they are really the same thing?

The personality of Gollum seemed to be wholy based on the possession of the Ring. So, as Oddwen pointed out with the quote, with the loss of the Ring came something of a loss of self. The Gollum personality didn't have anything to attach to and so it was "lost", so to speak.

Smeagol, on the other hand, was the initial personality, and so wasn't "lost". So came the Smeagol/Gollum arguments. The Smeagol personality was able to voice his opinion (heh) because of the "loss" of strength in the Gollum personality. Unless I'm much mistaken, Gollum and Smeagol didn't argue much (or at all) in The Hobbit, when the Ring was surmised to be safe in his/their hut.

Abedithon le,

~ Saphy ~

[Firefoot]

Interesting comments on Gollum/Ring vs. Smeagol. So if the Gollum side associates himself with the Ring, how does the Smeagol side see it? Looking back at the arguments his two sides have with each other, the Gollum side is always for taking back the Ring, while the Smeagol side stands for holding up to his promise and not harming Frodo. This may be because while the Gollum side feels he is lost, the Smeagol side is now free, from the Ring if not from Gollum. Gollum is certainly one of the most complex characters.

So, in light of these opinions, which side of Gollum's personality is making the promise to serve the master of the Precious? Or is it both? Would his motives be different depending on which side it is? My guess is, it is the Smeagol side that is promising to be good, and the Gollum side goes along with it to get the rope off, not intending to keep the promise. The Gollum side would be the one that wanted to swear on the Precious rather than by it, as a way of trying to achieve possession of his Precious and in turn the part of his soul that he has 'lost.'

[Oddwen]

Here we get a little bit more into the "He hates and loves the Ring, as he hates and loves himself" bit.

I can almost see Gollum as the Ring come to flesh. He's devious, manipulative, and very cunning, while Smeagol is almost childish and naive.
Smeagol hates the Ring and Gollum because they almost "make" him do what he didn't/doesn't want to do. Maybe he's too childish to realize that it's his choice too, but giving in has become an age-old habit.
While Gollum hates Smeagol for holding him back.

And when a chance came it caught...Gollum, and it had devoured him. It could make no further use of him: he was too small and mean; and as long as it stayed with him he would never leave his deep pool again.

But then Gandalf says that Sauron sent forth his will, and the Ring "abandoned Gollum".
Is Gandalf referring to Gollum just because Frodo would know him by that name, or is he naming the evil half?

which side of Gollum's personality is making the promise to serve the master of the Precious?

I would say that both of them did it, Smeegs because he was frightened of Frodo and the Ring, and because Gollum could see a loophole in that promise.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Gollum spoke like that because he was a severely muddled individual.

[Firefoot]

Gollum spoke like that because he was a severely muddled individual.

That's why he's so interesting. However, I don't think that this is the only reason Gollum spoke like that. Gollum certainly isn't stupid - in fact he is quite clever - and he has a fairly strong understanding of what the Ring is (at the time of LotR, anyhow) and its larger implications on himself, Frodo, and Sauron. At the time of the Hobbit, you might make the argument that he was simply severely muddled. The Ring was simply his precious and his birthday present, and a useful tool for going about invisibly, and he had been driven nearly insane by his solitude. Even then, though, he had intelligence and wiliness, so I do not think the term 'precious' was simply one he had picked up in his mad ravings. It meant something to him. There were very few things that mattered to Gollum: his precious self, his precious Ring, and fisssh. As he grew more attached to the Ring, he became more like it, associating himself with it, and thereby giving himself and it the same name.

So I do not think you can say Gollum's speech patterns came only from his muddled-ness (though, I grant that it was a large factor), which was a direct result of his possession of the Ring. It is more complex than that.

Gollum/Smeagol Re: It occurred to me that the contexts in which the two personalities use the term "precious" are very different. Gollum uses it referring to himself and having lost it - very selfish terms, focused only on himself. Smeagol solely uses the precious to refer to the Ring, and in these cases it is capitolized. It is then simply another name for the Ring, which though it grew from Gollum's usage of the word, it has very separate connotations indeed.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I am not convinced that it is more complex than that. I don't think Gollum put too much thought into how to properly use the word precious. He just bandied it about rather carelessly, which is precisely the kind of thing that you do if you're having quite tremendous personal and psychological problems as Gollum clearly was.

[ninlaith]

Ok here's what I think...even if it is a little mixed up. Isildur called the ring precious. Or it was precious truly more like it. I think when Gollum acquired the ring the essence of Isildur sort of stuck to the ring and Gollum started calling the ring his precious. Then as the ring started to consume his mind, the precious started consuming him and becoming a part of him. The part of him that he called my precious when he was talking to himself. If you remeber Smeagol used pet names while he was still a Hobbit. Give that to us Deagol my love. So i guess Gollum just really likes pet names. I don't really know. That's just always been the way I've percieved it.

[Sapphire_Flame]

Ah, the return of the scarily short responses. o.O Way to go, Eomer and burra.

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

I don't think Gollum put too much thought into how to properly use the word precious. He just bandied it about rather carelessly, which is precisely the kind of thing that you do if you're having quite tremendous personal and psychological problems as Gollum clearly was.

That's a very good point. I think it could have become just something he said, with little significance behind it. It could be rather like some people will habitually say "I love you" when terminating a phone call with someone close to them. It becomes a habit; so whether they consciously decide to say it or not, it still comes out.

I do think there may be a difference between "precious" and "The Precious", however. The Precious does seem to be in reference to the Ring. "precious", uncapitalized, seems to just be the habitual term Gollum/Smeagol uses when talking to others or himself. Perhaps it's like an "affectionate" (heh) moniker, such as "dear" or something to that effect. And, as I stated above, Gollum's use of it could be purely subconscious.

~ Saphy ~