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Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page |
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#1 | ||
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A Mere Boggart
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: under the bed
Posts: 4,737
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This brings to mind another instance where a King returns to his 'divine right', that of Charles II; the circumstances of this return follow the English 'republic' (there's some question over this however...) which proved unsuccessful in the end, as has done the Stewardship with Denethor's poor judgement. Though maybe I will develop the thinking on this one for Boromir 88's politics thread as it's a tad thorny. Quote:
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Gordon's alive!
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Illustrious Ulair
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
Posts: 4,240
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Its this distinction between Destiny & Fate which Tolkien seems to be exploring in the tales of Aragorn & Frodo. Destiny is not fate, because it can be accepted or rejected. There is freedom of choice in Destiny, but not so with fate. Frodo's fate was sealed when he took up the Ring - effectively he became a 'servant' & had to submit - in fact, the times he comes closest to failing are those moments when he tries to take control of situations - when he casts aside that 'power of another kind' which Gandalf says is present in the Shire - humility. Frodo is humble before his fate, submitting to it & it carries him forward to his destined end. When Frodo refuses to be humble, when he treats fate as destiny, something he can accept or reject is when he comes closest to disaster. Aragorn, on the other hand, comes closest to failing when he treats his Destiny as fate - expecting circumstances to sweep him along without effort - hence all his complaints about things not working out as he wished. These early chapters of books 3&4 show the two heroes coming to a realisation of their respective roles. Frodo realises he must become a 'servant' of fate, Aragorn a master of his destiny. As Aragorn says of Frodo & Sam, theirs has been the hardest road, & so it was, because submission, humility, service, is harder to bear than rulership, yet it is Frodo & Sam's humble service which saves the world, not Aragorn's power & dominance in battle. Not a very 21st century message. |
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#3 | |
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A Mere Boggart
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: under the bed
Posts: 4,737
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Yet Frodo is the one under the bigger amount of pressure. In order to achieve what fate has told him he must do, he has to accept humility; then he must forego his status and allow his ego to be damaged - something that not many of us today would be prepared to accept as we all wish to attain 'status'. It is now being shown that stress is suffered more by those without choice or power in their daily lives; Frodo must undergo this lack of control, unlike Aragorn, who does have the choice, and who does have power.
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Gordon's alive!
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#4 | ||
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Gibbering Gibbet
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Beyond cloud nine
Posts: 1,844
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Some very nice points about Aragorn that I would like to pick up on, as this really is his chapter.
The issue of choice and Destiny (lovely distinction you make, davem, between Frodo-Aragorn and Fate-Destiny) undergoes a profound shift in this chapter. To this point, the story has been concerned with the choices that Aragorn must make, but with his introduction to Eomer, suddenly something new happens. Rather than Aragorn making a choice, he becomes the choice: Quote:
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That light which flickers around his brows is seen only by the Elf, so I have a hard time seeing it as some kind of overt sign of his right to rule Men. Instead, I think that moment speaks more about Legolas than Aragorn, for it charts the Elf’s reaction to the challenge presented by Aragorn. To Men, he appears as a great Man and King of old; one who commands their allegiance and demands that they make a hard choice about him. For the Elf, over whom he does not have sovereignty, he reveals that Numenorean aspect of his lineage that is Elvish. It’s as though Aragorn is finally so confident and integrated in himself that he begins to present the same challenge to others that he has successfully overcome in himself. One of the nicer ways that this is demonstrated in the chapter is his use of his tracking, Ranger skills. To this point in the story, he has only really ‘been’ a Ranger from Bree to Rivendell, so it might appear ironic that in the very chapter that he emerges as the heir of Elendil that he is also acting as a Ranger once more – but I think it makes perfect sense insofar as he is no longer torn, but an integrated self. He is both Strider (Telcontar) and Aragorn (Elessar), and its this unity of self that gives him the remarkable strength and purpose with which to command (or challenge?) the loyalties of other men.
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Scribbling scrabbling. |
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#5 | |||
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Hauntress of the Havens
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: IN it, but not OF it
Posts: 2,538
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Ah, now here's the chapter to go completely Aragorn swooning!
It is interesting to note that as Boromir died in the previous chapter, bereaving Gondor of his leadership, another leader is rising to take his place...something like the authority over Gondor being "reborn." Not only that, Aragorn himself was given "new life." He has lost almost all hope upon Boromir's death, but here he is in this chapter, showing us little by little how he deserves the throne of Gondor. I find it ironic that he doesn't see himself as a leader worth following. Despite the assurance of Gimli and Legolas that they will follow his guidance, he says: Quote:
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End of swooning, for now. I pity Eomer in this chapter. I cannot imagine how much amazement and shock he had to deal with as he conversed with the Man, Elf, and Dwarf. He was given proof of realities he thought were legends all along, and to make it worse, a stranger challenged him...and in his own lands, too! It must have been a very humbling action for him even just to cast down his proud eyes when Aragorn revealed his identity to him. After all these, he had to make a decision that forces him to choose between the circumstances and the laws. Should he do what he thinks is right yet is against what he knows is right (i.e. aid Aragorn and disregard the law), or do what is right beyond the shadow of the doubt? Either way, the repercussions are still unclear to him, for he cannot see the big picture. But in the end, he takes a big risk, which we realize as he tells Aragorn what he has decided... Quote:
Last edited by Lhunardawen; 12-03-2004 at 03:10 AM. Reason: OC |
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#6 |
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Princess of Skwerlz
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles)
Posts: 7,500
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Thanks to Bęthberry for pointing out a mistake in my introductory post - I said that Éomer lent Aragorn and Co. "Rhovanian" horses, which was incorrect - Rhovanion and Rohan are not the same. I edited the post to read "horses of Rohan" now.
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'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...' |
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#7 | |
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Scion of The Faithful
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: The brink, where hope and despair are akin. [The Philippines]
Posts: 5,312
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For a moment it seemed to the eyes of Legolas that a white flame flickered on the brows of Aragorn like a shining crown.Why, indeed, did only the Elf see this crown? During the Third Age Men’s dominion was not yet consummate. Elves and Wizards still play a huge role in the affairs of Middle-earth. So we have these two major forces in history: The Fading Ones (The Eldar and the Istari), the once-rulers; and the Followers, the soon-to-be rulers. And Aragorn is a bridge between these two: Quote:
Now I believe that Aragorn had been “crowned” first in Moria, when Gandalf made him leader of the Fellowship. But hitherto he has not yet accepted this crown fully. Hitherto, I said above. Let us look at the quote again, this time including the sentences before it: Gimli and Legolas looked at their companion in amazement, for they had not seen him in this mood before. He seemed to have grown in stature while Eomer had shrunk; and in his living face they caught a brief vision of the power and majesty of the kings of stone. For a moment it seemed to the eyes of Legolas that a white flame flickered on the brows of Aragorn like a shining crown.His companions have not seen him in this mood before—this kingly mood. It was, perhaps, in this moment that he first truly accepted this crown. Notice that both companions have seen the vision of power and majesty in his face, while it was only the Elf who saw the crown of light. He had this power and majesty in him all along, so it could be visible for all to see, if he so wishes to reveal it. But the crown . . . he has yet to win it over Men. Only the foresighted Fading Ones could see it for now. [NOTE: There, Fordim, I’ve transplanted that idea (of Aragorn's "crowning") to CbC. Have I ever thanked you for that encouraging rep you gave oh-so-long ago? ]
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フェンリス鴨 (Fenrisu Kamo) The plot, cut, defeated. I intend to copy this sig forever - so far so good...
Last edited by Nilpaurion Felagund; 12-03-2004 at 11:16 PM. Reason: grandmother issues |
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