I smell cheeze. - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Essex · 12-03-2004, 08:05 AM

Boromir,

regarding your point on the cheesiness of 'Die Now' that the Witch King says to Eowyn.

This line was borrowed from the Witch King's line to Gandalf at the gates of Minas Tirith.

Quote:

'Old fool!' he said. 'Old fool! This is my hour. Do you not know Death when you see it? Die now and curse in vain!'

So PJ cannot be blamed for that.

Therefore Tolkien has Cheesy Dialouge too..........

Boromir88 · 12-03-2004, 08:08 AM

Then why doesn't he just say...

Quote:

Do you not know Death when you see it? Die now and curse in vain!'

Instead of cutting the sentence in half with a cheezy Legolas liner "Die now." I don't see Tolkien as the cheeziness here because he just didn't end it with "Die Now!" Just doesn't sound right, reminds me of "Sleep (hand wave)." Which was just downright bad.

Edit: I'm sure if I look hard enough I can find corny lines Tolkien has too, in fact I know one.
"Shortcuts make for delays, but inns make for longer ones."
This I find really corny, but that good corny, sort of like your Grandpa's jokes, with that quirky sort of humor. Where "Die Now!," or "A Diversion!," or "I see you!" are just...bad.

Essex · 12-03-2004, 09:22 AM

OK Boromir, I understand your point that maybe the line is 'bad' because it cuts out most of the sentence, but I don't see how it's 'cheesy'.

anyway, I enjoyed the Witch King scene immensly, it was one of the scenes I was most looking forward to, and it didn't dissapoint.

And I didn't smell gorgonzola either....

mark12_30 · 12-03-2004, 10:45 AM

There are few lines that I mind; "A diversion" is one, I suppose. Much that has been mentioned so far I am either little bothered by or I enjoy. However, what I do find very cheesy indeed is: the LACK of good lines for Frodolijah.

Book-Frodo is learned, articulate, thoughtful, diplomatic, and a worthy nephew of Ambassador Bilbo. His extensive discussion with Faramir, for instance, is astonishingly eloquent, and in my opinion it's a shame that we never heard any of it in the movie.

Wood is no slouch, and can deliver a line, a paragraph, or a speech at need. I wish they'd asked him to once in a while. Instead, Frodolijah was relegated to body-language, eye-rolling, falling, and slithering into corners far too often.

Lalwendë · 12-03-2004, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Aragorn's "Dwelling in the days of peace" speech at his coronation.

I have a video tape somewhere with an episode of The South Bank Show about Ian McKellen; on this there's a most amusing out-take where they do a 'spoof' coronation. In this, Ian McKellen is crowned and he delivers the immortally camp line "these are the days of the Queen..."

Now, to be fair on the lines which Orlando Bloom got, I think they weren't all that bad, but you could tell he was straight-out-of-drama-school in many cases; his enunciation was just too perfect, which made some of his lines sound twee.

My worst line has to be the much hated: "Give up the halfling, she-elf".

Sapphire_Flame · 12-03-2004, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

My worst line has to be the much hated: "Give up the halfling, she-elf".

Gneh. Ditto that.

Good point about "just out of acting school" Orli, too.

~ Saphy ~

Lalwendë · 12-03-2004, 02:53 PM

Another line which is incredibly out of place, but I like as it's a little Morecambe & Wise, is that delivered by Legolas to Gimli on the walls of Helm's Deep:

"Shall I describe it to you or do you want me to find you a box?"

Essex · 12-04-2004, 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark12_30

However, what I do find very cheesy indeed is: the LACK of good lines for Frodolijah........Wood is no slouch, and can deliver a line, a paragraph, or a speech at need. I wish they'd asked him to once in a while. Instead, Frodolijah was relegated to body-language, eye-rolling, falling, and slithering into corners far too often.

So what about his narration back at Bag End? That was beautifully delivered and gets me every time I hear it.

Does anyone here except for me and the Saucepan Man actually like these movies? All I seem to see on these movie posts is another reason to slag them off.......

(yes, I know, taking myself far too seriously)

mark12_30 · 12-04-2004, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Essex

So what about his narration back at Bag End? That was beautifully delivered and gets me every time I hear it.

Does anyone here except for me and the Saucepan Man actually like these movies?

I love these movies. As I've said elsewhere, they are some of the best Tolkien fanfiction ever produced, and have rekindled interest in many, and introduced Tolkien to many who would not otherwise have landed in Middle-Earth at all. They do deviate from the books, etc etc, but given their positive worldwide Tolkien impact I can 'forgive' much. I think they are mostly superb as they stand, and deserved all eleven oscars, etc.

And yes, the narration at Bag End is wonderful-- to me, proof that more of Frodo should have been heard as well as seen. That is my one real complaint about the movies as a whole: that Frodo was dumbed down.

Otherwise, they are magnificent.

Boromir88 · 12-04-2004, 09:05 AM

Essex, from a movie critiquers point of view, this is nothing like some of the greats, like Hitchcock, Franz Lang....etc. The movies catch my eye because it's entertaining, and fun to watch. But is it a brilliant piece of work that I watch repeatedly, over and over again? No, because there's not much depth to it. Mr. Jackson decided to focus on fighting, and not the characters, but did I like it? I have the movies, so I'll let everyone figure that out.

12-03-2004, 10:45 AM	#4
mark12_30 Stormdancer of Doom Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars Posts: 4,349	There are few lines that I mind; "A diversion" is one, I suppose. Much that has been mentioned so far I am either little bothered by or I enjoy. However, what I do find very cheesy indeed is: the LACK of good lines for Frodolijah. Book-Frodo is learned, articulate, thoughtful, diplomatic, and a worthy nephew of Ambassador Bilbo. His extensive discussion with Faramir, for instance, is astonishingly eloquent, and in my opinion it's a shame that we never heard any of it in the movie. Wood is no slouch, and can deliver a line, a paragraph, or a speech at need. I wish they'd asked him to once in a while. Instead, Frodolijah was relegated to body-language, eye-rolling, falling, and slithering into corners far too often. __________________ ...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve.

12-03-2004, 02:53 PM	#7
Lalwendë A Mere Boggart Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: under the bed Posts: 4,737	Another line which is incredibly out of place, but I like as it's a little Morecambe & Wise, is that delivered by Legolas to Gimli on the walls of Helm's Deep: "Shall I describe it to you or do you want me to find you a box?" __________________ Gordon's alive!

12-04-2004, 09:05 AM	#10
Boromir88 Laconic Loreman Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: USA Posts: 7,521	Essex, from a movie critiquers point of view, this is nothing like some of the greats, like Hitchcock, Franz Lang....etc. The movies catch my eye because it's entertaining, and fun to watch. But is it a brilliant piece of work that I watch repeatedly, over and over again? No, because there's not much depth to it. Mr. Jackson decided to focus on fighting, and not the characters, but did I like it? I have the movies, so I'll let everyone figure that out. __________________ Fenris Penguin

12-03-2004, 09:22 AM	#3
Essex Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Essex, England Posts: 886	OK Boromir, I understand your point that maybe the line is 'bad' because it cuts out most of the sentence, but I don't see how it's 'cheesy'. anyway, I enjoyed the Witch King scene immensly, it was one of the scenes I was most looking forward to, and it didn't dissapoint. And I didn't smell gorgonzola either....