The Gift of Speech

[burrahobbit]

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

The Hobbit and LotR but also the Silm with both of them. So I do feel that, if one is to be treated as presenting the 'facts' about a particular period in Middle-earth's history, then the others should (in the absence of any inconsistencies) be treated in similar fashion.

Truly, but there do seem to be certain inconsistencies, in relation to each other and with the Real World that they are explicitly set in, though in a fictional and more magical time period. In the real Real World swords don't talk. How can the two be reconciled? The certain strived for "realness" and the pure fantasy of talking things? A reasonable idea or two has come up in the topic (houseless spirits) but there are some others that could be put forward (see THE DRUEDAIN in UT).

noncomprehensive list of Things that talked:
eagles
thrush
gurthang
Ring
spiders
fox (thought)
trolls
William's purse
orcs

You may think that orcs is a strange addition to that list, but it goes right to the point of the topic. What is it that let's a Thing talk?

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Boroughobbit ;)

In the real Real World swords don't talk.

No, but cars do.

What is it that let's a Thing talk?

But we must first establish the nature of the Thing. Does it have sentience or is it a mere automaton programmed to respond in a certain way in specified circumstance (like a computer)?

I would regard Aghan's Faithful Stone (and William Huggins' purse for that matter) as falling in the latter category. But Gurthang appears to display a sentience that is independent of the one who made it.

The again, perhaps Eol had developed the craft of creating Artificial Intelligence.

[Turin]

Gurthang doesn't talk. Turin, or rather Tolkien through Turin, is projecting his other, conflicting personal torments: In his despair he justifies his imminent act (of suicide) by focusing on all the ill-things that he had done with ihis sword i.e. accidently killing Beleg, Brandir etc etc.

Not many animals do talk in the books. The Eagles of Manwe had been blessed by him and were a special case - their unusual size, for example. In the First Age they provide a valuable function for the Valar to keep an eye on Morgoth (Thorondor et al are an ominous sign to Morgoth that the Valar have not completely forsakened Beleriand).

Gwahir is descended from this special race and possesses, therefore, some of their unique characteristics.

Many lesser Maiar are said to have inhabited animal forms in Valinor. It is perfectly plausible to suppose animals could be given a "spirit" by those powerful enough to do so. The Thrush is said to be descended from a family of talking thrushes, they must have been endowed with their talking trait through unrecorded History.

My other guess is that Radaghast had some influence on using some animals for good (remembering that the Istari had been in ME for over 2 thousand years). He may have imparted (acting as an agent) some of his maiaric spirit into certain animals for some (mostly) unknown purpose.

There are tantalizing enigmas that Tolkien leaves for us to make our own mind up about.

[Aiwendil]

Gurthang doesn't talk. Turin, or rather Tolkien through Turin, is projecting his other, conflicting personal torments: In his despair he justifies his imminent act (of suicide) by focusing on all the ill-things that he had done with ihis sword i.e. accidently killing Beleg, Brandir etc etc.

That's certainly a valid interpretation, but I wouldn't state it as a simple fact. There is something to be said for taking the text at face value as well.