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Old 12-11-2004, 09:50 PM   #6
Firefoot
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In and of itself, I would not say manipulation is evil. It is the motives of the person doing the manipulating and the way they do it that makes it evil or good. To go along with the Gandalf vs. Saruman example, Gandalf's motives were good. His ultimate goal was to unite the peoples of the West to defeat Sauron. His methods were also good. He did not force anyone to do anything. He used a great deal of persuading and convincing, but these are not bad things. Saruman, on the other hand, manipulated people so as to gain control of Middle-earth for himself. To do this he also used persuasion (which is still not a bad thing), but he also forced beings into doing his will (i.e. Orcs and 'brainwashing' Theoden), which is a bad thing.

Basically, if a person (object?) is manipulating for their own benefit (e.g. Saruman, the Ring), it is probably evil. If they are manipulating for the benefit of the people at large (e.g. Gandalf), it is probably good.

Cross-posting with the last two posts, which basically say the same thing. With those in mind, I do not think that control is necessarily bad. Otherwise there would be chaos. As was pointed out, it is a question of morals. What Gandalf is doing is still manipulation - it is just with a benevolent intent.

Last edited by Firefoot; 12-11-2004 at 09:53 PM.
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