A friendly conversation

[Neferchoirwen]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Onto the next topic we discussed, and this one really caught my attention. He made a connection between Joseph, husband of Mary, and Sam. If you wish to learn a bit about Joseph look at Mathew 1:18-25. Mathew focuses on the pain of Joseph after hearing that his wife is pregnant, and it wasn't by him. He hears this, yet he sticks with her, he could simply say, I'm not going with her. The common law at the time said he could have abandoned her. But, he goes with her, to Bethlehem, he fought through the pain and stuck with her. Let's look at Sam, what instances of them were he could have simply left Frodo, not have gone with him? But, Sam, said no, he was going to stick with his friend. Just like with Mary, it's debatable but she might not have made it to Bethlehem with Joseph. It's debatable, but Frodo might not have made it to the Mountain with Sam. I found this connection to be rather interesting, and something I didn't consider before.

Wow. I never thought of it that way. Great insight.

[HerenIstarion]

Are these worlds supposed to mix together?

First off, they are already a result of such a mix, and world owes its very existence to such a mix:

S77

Therefore I say: Eä! Let these things Be! And I will send forth into the Void the Flame Imperishable, and it shall be at the heart of the World, and the World shall Be

Besides, in some distant future (ME's future, that is), more concrete intersection (or, rather, descending of the higher into the lower) is guessed at, or expected, or hoped for:

AFaA

'They say,' answered Andreth: 'they say that the One [i.e. - Eru -- HerenIstarion] will himself enter into Arda, and heal Men and all the Marring from the beginning to the end. This they say also, or they feign, is a rumour that has come down through years uncounted, even from the days of our undoing.

cheers

[littlemanpoet]

Madeleine L'Engle (sp?) wrote some interesting things along these lines in her "Wrinkle in Time" young adult science fiction series. To cut to the chase, the structure of matter is such that there is more space than matter at the microscopic level, and levels that are even smaller.

C.S. Lewis also touched on this same notion, in his The Great Divorce, in which ghosts are less solid than heavenly beings.

To the point:

I'm fascinated with the notion of the interconnectedness of all of reality. There is enough space "built" into the structure of all that is, such that there is much room for that which cannot be seen to be in the same time and place as that which is seen.

One more example to get at what I'm trying to describe: the risen Jesus passes through a door and enters the room where his disciples are hiding. The notion here that I'm working with is that Jesus may have been more solid than the door, and walked through the subatomic spaces in subatomic matter. The supernatural could be said to impinge upon the natural.

Now, think of Weathertop. Frodo sees the shadowy ringwraiths coming to attack him. He fails to withstand the will of the Ring, and slips it on his finger; in an instant, the shadowy ringwraiths are rendered as beings of fell power, real as can be, but trapped in this negative spirit realm, which inhabits the same space as the Middle Earth that is Frodo's home. That realm the ringwraiths inhabit is no less real than Frodo's world of blue sky, green grass, wet water, etc.

I'm suggesting an impingement rather than parallel, or tangency. All's in and through all.

[drigel]

love this thread
littleman, the first thing i thought about was L'Engle as well. What a wonderfull tangent, and a great read - for any age of reader!

I'm fascinated with the notion of the interconnectedness of all of reality. There is enough space "built" into the structure of all that is, such that there is much room for that which cannot be seen to be in the same time and place as that which is seen.

The magic of LOTR for me lies partly in the fact that took place when the world was much younger and there was less obstruction (intellectual, technological, societal, cultural) between its inhabitants and the ______(fill in the blank - spiritual, supernatural, other dimensions etc). To me, its part of the long deafeat - not just the loss of the fair peoples and lands, its the loss of the awareness of this part of life.

The reigious aspect I tend to shy away from, although i am interested in reading peoples thoughts on it. It is fortuitous though, that the author was genuinely grounded in his spiritual life to portray this aspect in a way that is not trivial or chimera like. Its as vital and important to the story (and the mythology), and "real" as ents, dragons and talking swords. And it all fits nicely in his sub-creation without any affront to his Creator.