**The Return of the King Extended Edition**

[Enorëiel]

I must admit that for some reason I was expecting a bit more from EE.... Not to say that EE isn't really great - cuz it is! But it seems like it was missing something...

Anyways! The added stuff was amazing. I was so glad to see The House of Healing (even if it was so short) and to see Gandalf and The Witch King, The mouth of Sauron (Sorry... but did anyone else crack up at Aragorn's espression after TMOS 'smiles'? *Snork* I bust a gut!) and especially in the Company of Orcs. It was so nice to see more depth to some things.

As always, the EE really gave more feeling to some parts of the movie and explained certain things (- Ah - so that's why Gandalf didn't have his staff at the Pyre of Denethor...). However, I still wish most of this stuff was just included in the regular version rather than the EE... It would have helped some of my friends understand certain things, cuz heck - let's face it, many of the people who went to the theaters to see the movie aren't going to watch the EE version of it. It's mostly just us nuts who want to see certain scenes we missed from the books that weren't in the original movie.

But yeah, Overall I'd give it an 8 or 9. It was truly very brilliant!

~Enny~

[Bungo Baggins]

Since I was simply looking forward to new scenes I wasn't too picky. I am no middle earth expert yet so I really can't compare some details to my knowledge of the books. I will say, though, I liked the mouth of Sauraon (creepy) and the scene with Saruman, simply because I wanted to see Christopher Lee one last time in the film. I also loved the extended Path of the Dead sequence and the extended Gandalf and Pippin scene. The drinking contest seemed like it was tryin to hard to be funny and was out of place.

[Rochelle]

Now, regardless to the fact if it was in the books or not, I thought that the added scene with Eomer finding Eowyn on the field absolutely amazing. The anguish in Karl Urbans face when he held her was how I would imagine I would feel/look if I found my sister like that.

The mouth of Sauron was hysterical in my opinion. That wide, toothy grin was something that's for sure. I wasn't quite sure if it was grinning to be spiteful or if that's the natural position of the mouth! *lol*

I was still holding out hope that one of my favorite lines would be completed in the extended edition, but alas, it wasn't. It was when Sam realized that Frodo hadn't been killed by Shelob. In the movie, all he says is "Samwise, you fool." In the book he goes into a more heartfelt line of "Samwise you fool, he wasn't dead and your heart knew it" ...For all the detail Sean Astin goes into to try and be like Samwise in the novel, I would have really liked to see that as one of those minor adjustments. *shrugs* oh well, I've got my books that have it down PERFECT!

All in all...loved the extended edition scenes. I haven't watched all the extra features, but I did manage to watch the dedication to Cameron Duncan. I cried, it was beautifully done.

[Sapphire_Flame]

Ah, Kransha, well said!

Originally Posted by Rochelle

The mouth of Sauron was hysterical in my opinion. That wide, toothy grin was something that's for sure. I wasn't quite sure if it was grinning to be spiteful or if that's the natural position of the mouth! *lol*

I really liked how his mouth moved, actually. It pulled your attention there, which is where it should be. Mouth of Sauron, gettit? I really liked his mannerisms in the film; I believe the way he was to be played was that he was basically a puppet (maybe dead at that point?) being controlled by Sauron. The jerkiness of his movements really helped to give that impression.

Originally Posted by Dûrbelethwen

2. Did Gimli bumb Legolas's bow on purpose during the Corsairs scene? I noticed the camera focused on that fact.

That definitely seemed to be the case! I thought that was really clever; if Legolas doesn't want to hit something, he doesn't. It's a funny excuse for the shot to go awry. I know a few people are a little annoyed by that, but just remember, PJ is the corsair being shot! ^_~

(Just kidding, PJ! You're wonderful, really! *hugs*)

Abedithon le,

~ Saphy ~

[ElanorGamgee]

I’m afraid that this extended edition was more of a disappointment than a treat for me. There were a few scenes that I really enjoyed, but I felt like I was waiting around for hours for certain scenes that never came.

Favorite additions:

- The statue of the king at the crossroads that is “re-crowned.” Very beautiful.

- Gandalf’s brief history lesson concerning Númenor, including allusions to the fall of the Númenórians and their culture of death as described in The Silmarillion.

- Saruman’s quote about “brigand’s brats who roll on the floor with the dogs” (sorry, don’t have a book handy to look up the exact quote). Makes me laugh :-P

Problems:

- My major disappointment was with the portrayal and treatment of the Mouth of Sauron. First of all, he didn’t scare me; he was just disgusting. He wasn’t portrayed as a twisted, lost man (which would have be a hundred times more eerie), but as a specialized orc. More importantly, Aragorn’s sudden and relatively unprovoked beheading of the MoS was barbaric. It was an unnecessarily violent and thoughtless action that added nothing to the plot and was certainly not indicative of kingly, noble character. That Jackson could derive such a scene from a source text that emphasizes mercy and fair play on the part of the protagonists puzzles me.

- I was looking forward to the Houses of Healing and a developed relationship between Faramir and Éowyn, but the extra scenes were only tantalizing, not satisfying in the least. The developing love between Faramir and Éowyn was shown so briefly that it may have been better to leave it out altogether. It suggests that Éowyn, knowing that she couldn’t have Aragorn, settled for the next handsome man. Very poor character development.

- This may just be a personal peeve, but what was the point of having Éomer tell Éowyn that battle was man’s domain? To further develop a feminist theme simply not present in the original work? Probably so. Nonetheless, I did not appreciate the point being made at his expense, as if to make a bigot out of one of Tolkien’s greatest heroic figures (not in the sense that his statement is necessarily a bigoted one, but in that it is meant to be interpreted as incorrect and chauvanistic). I am a woman, but that doesn’t mean I need a pep talk at every movie I go to. I love Éowyn as a woman who is fighting for her people and for renown, fighting as a person, not as a cause.

- Why does Gandalf have to order everything “into the abyss?” That phrase seems a bit overused (if not melodramatic). His staff being shattered was simply awful. It draws ties to Saruman that are less than flattering. And I can’t imagine Tolkien’s Gandalf ever being knocked over like an old man, no matter how fearsome the foe, and certainly not because some flying reptile screamed at him.

- I understand why Jackson left out the Shire at the end, and I almost liked his version of Sharkey’s End. Right up until he fell off Orthanc and landed on that spike. That was just gruesome. Rather poor taste if you ask me.

- What was up with the avalanche of skulls in the paths of the dead? Major overkill. Does Jackson realize how many people those skulls would add up to?

- And finally (probably to your relief )…enough with the Gimli slapstick! Sheesh.


In conclusion, it seems to me that Mr. Jackson still hasn’t gotten past his horror, B-rated genre days. LotR probably helped him get out of the rut, but he’s still too wrapped up in gross-out and shock-and-awe scenes for their own sake to truly, in my opinion, do justice to a work like LotR. A little subtlety can go a long way. Don’t get me wrong: I’ve enjoyed these movies, but in the end I find my admiration waning under disappointments that just kept piling up.

[Iaurhirwen]

After watching it last night I have found that I give the movie a 9.5 out of 10.

The scene with Saruman and Grima at the Orthanc I really enjoyed. You can really tell that Saruman is one of us with the awsome performance that he puts out. To me, he just embodies what I envisioned in my own mind of what Saruman would be like. As to the question posed as to why Legolas shot Grima who was in the process of "offing" Saruman, it is because he was killing Saruman and they wanted him alive so that they could get more information out of him. Even though the scene in the Shire was not there, Saruman's death was a nice replacement for that.

But what I feel aided the movie most of all where the little scenes that were extended/added to the theatrical version. The additional interaction with Faramir and Denethor where some of the saddest moments in the movie, even though I didn't like the development of Denethor's character. They still made the movie so much more special to me. The additional scenes with Pippin and Faramir and Gandalf were really touching. And Merry offering his sword to Theoden is one of may favorite scenes.

Me, being the crazy person that I am, watched the entire movie, including the credits and the insanely long list of members of the fanclub. Towards the end of the credits there is a statement thanking all the people that made the movie possible, or something along those lines. And then there follows some lines written in another language. I'm not sure if it is Elvish or not. If it is, its not any that I can recognize. The quote goes as follows:

Me Mahara Tonu Tatou Nga Uri-Apakura No Tuanuku Nei,
No te Waoto, te tu kekehua ana o nga Eldarin kua Hohou mai i te Uri-Moaka

Of course, we can all recognize the word Eldarin, but I am curious as to the actual meaning of the phrase. To me, it reminds me more of Japanese than of Elvish, but what do I know. I believe that I got the quote correct, I could never pause the DVD in the right place so the image was always a little blurry. Any ideas as to the meaning????

[Elianna]

Originally Posted by Iaurhirwen

The quote goes as follows:Me mahara tonu taatou nga Uri-aapakura noo tuaanuku nei, noo te waaotuu te tu kekehua ana o ngaa Eldarin kua hohouu mai i te Uru-moana.
… Any ideas as to the meaning?

I tried to figureitout on my own, had no success, and looked elsewhere. So, lookie what I found at theonering.net:

Ataahua writes: Here is a copy of the Maori text in the end-credits of ROTK, with a translation provided by someone who is fluent in the Maori language. He said it was difficult to translate as the passage included metaphors which had to be interpreted, but once he knew it had to do with Tolkien’s Middle-earth the translation came easily:
Me mahara tonu taatou nga Uri-aapakura noo tuaanuku nei, noo te waaotuu te tu kekehua ana o ngaa Eldarin kua hohouu mai i te Uru-moana.

“Let us dedicate our memories to the spirits of the Eldar who came to us from the Ocean that lies to the West.”

My thoughts on all the Extended-ness will come later.

[Kransha]

Well, well, it's been more'n week since I've even posted on the Downs! Dreadful! I must recoup my losses...The holiday season obviously has its downsides (O accursed St. Nicholas, how dare you distract me with baubles and gift wrap!)

Since I made vehement points about the EE on other occasions, I thought it'd be fitting for me to return, in good spirits, with my newly purchased copy of the Extended Edition, and report.

Many of you may know that Saruman and Grima Wormtongue are two of my favorite characters in The Lord of the Rings, nay, in all of Tolkien's works.

You may be surprised, then, to learn that I loved the added "Voice of Saruman" sequence.

Christopher Lee is magnificent as usual, and I have only two minor gripes. Far more good points to make then bad. The editing was sketchy, for one. Saruman popping up worked, because he is supposed to be crafty, and that implies a certain wizardly stealth, but when Saruman was dead and the camera cut back to Treebeard, it didn't work as well. Also, Saruman's actual "fall" was melodromatic with the amount of spinning that plummeting Maia carcass did. Would've been a bit more realistic if he just fell, and more weighty as well. Those are my only annoyances about the scene. The whispering of characters seemed reasonable to me. Firstly, it is explained that none of the actors realized how high up Saruman was, so their confusion is understandable.

Saruman's voice was perfectly melodious and sinister. When I heard Lee utter those fabulous words ("Gibbets and crows! Dotard!") I felt a surge of joy. I knew the whole speech would not be there, but I knew that its feeling was, and that was good enough. It is the feeling of that near-multiple-personality tirade of Saruman's that is essential. The voice was sickeningly sweet and tempting, tantalizing, and Theoden, despite other comments, seemed momentarily tempted by the prospect of alliance. Also as an added bonus, Grima was well-killed: swift arrow, a gasp or two, silence. And, finally, I found a bit of amusement and interest in hearing about Saruman's accurate delivery of his post-mortem grunt (C. Lee explains, in the 'Cameras in M-E' Documentary, that he had some clandestine knowledge of what sound a person made when a person was stabbed in the back multiple times).

The additions contributed to Legolas and Gimli were also interesting, considering the fact that, as is revealed, John Rhys-Davies actually ad-libbed all those corny/cheesy lines of Gimli's. This, I think, is a redeeming trait. It's not easy to create a line in context that is funny enough to still cause a chorus of laughter in global theaters. Kudos to the Dwarf! Similarly, I found little wrong with the drinking game, although it did not strike my humerus, as did some other Dwarven prodigies. I liked the Corsair bit, although the corsair captain's lines sounded even more modern than most of Legolas and Gimli's pop-culture jokes (do people in Middle-Earth really say "You and what army"?).

Denethor was not redeemed, he was explored, and I liked that - a lot. I thought that the EE added quite a bit to Denethor. His conversation with Faramir was average, but the single addition of his few lines during "The Pyre of Denethor" were enlightening in some respect. In the moment before he casts the torch, to sow his own doom, upon the fire, he did give some insight into his reasons and his madness (in essence, summing up a lot of thoughts that the book-verse palantir shoved into his weakened mind). John Noble, during the commentaries and documentaries, does speak about the palantir at length, which means that it was not forgotten...nor was it, really, left out of Denethor's character. I still think that the movie's depiction of him is slanderous to a great character, but I smile to know that some of my love for Denethor as a character is shared, and that PJ did understand that this was not a villain, not an abusive cad, but a fallen monarch...

[Dûrbelethwen]

My parents are having us watch it about an hour a night since it is so long, so I have not finished it yet (Maybe tonight). But I have some questions
1. Does anyone know what happened to the elven army who were at Helm's Deep? They could not all have died, I doubt that they would have left before the final defeat of Sauron. But they did not seem to be around at Edoras or anywhere in the Return of the King.
2. Did Gimli bumb Legolas's bow on purpose during the Corsairs scene? I noticed the camera focused on that fact.
3. Did the Evenstar pendant break in the scene with the palantir? It looked like it did and it did not look like Aragorn was wearing it in the next scene where they were on their way to Mordor.
If anyone is wondering we stopped it right after the palantir scene but had not stopped it before seeing Aragorn.

[Boromir88]

They could not all have died

I think they actually did all die. If you look in TTT, when they are stuck in the Hornburg, and Theoden decides to ride out, I don't believe there are any elves there except Legolas. I think the others are Theoden, Gamling, Aragorn, Legolas, A rohan standard bearer, and some other Rohan people.