**The Return of the King Extended Edition**

[Boromir88]

I still don't know why people get upset about the death of Saruman, ah well, no one has to like the reasons for why they did what they did.

I will say Nurumaiel, I'll have to find the article again, but Chris Lee was quite angered about being pushed back to ROTK EE, he thought the scene belonged to TTT. (Which it did, but I guess PJ wanted to end on a high battle note).

[Gurthang]

I just watched it for the first time today! *jumps up and down with glee*

I agree entirely, Boromir. The scene with Saruman on Orthanc really cleared up a lot of loose ends to the plot. It should have been in TTT. At the least PJ could have put it into the first release of ROTK. Sadly, it was not, but I thought it was very good scene.

As for Saruman's death. It really wasn't that much different from the book. Only in a different place. Grima jumps on Saruman, and stabs him with a dagger. Grima gets shot with an arrow and also dies. That's not too much different, and since the Scouring of the Shire was not in the movies at all, they couldn't have done it there anyway.

But one thing that I really didn't like was the Witch-king breaking Gandalf's staff. I was just like .

[Encaitare]

where does the other penny go?

Here are my thoughts on the EE, in no particular order, now that I finally gave in to temptation and watched it.

Although I dreaded the Saruman and Grima death scene, I actually enjoyed it. I think I would have preferred it if they'd been on the balcony, but that's my only gripe. Christopher Lee's acting was superb; I think he really nailed the Voice.

The king crowned with flowers, nice little addition.

The Denethor scenes... I'm mixed. I didn't care for him stumbling about and almost falling over his throne, but I did like his exchange with Faramir regarding the Ring. I did love some of his added lines, though, especially this one, so great I had to write it down: "Why do the fools fly? Better to die sooner than late... for die we must."

Gandalf's Gondorian 101 was a nice inclusion, giving some good background. Kudos to Ian McKellen for once more doing some exposition without making it awkward.

Eomer finding Eowyn on the battlefield was short but perfect. It makes me wonder if perhaps he knew a little more than everyone else, and if his remark about how war was for men was made with a bit more purpose, as though he was afraid she might try something. Mere speculation, of course.

One thing I really enjoyed was another very small point: when Eowyn and Theoden are fighting near each other, and Eowyn is really giving it her all. Theoden looks over at her in surprise and respect, no doubt wondering who this impassioned young soldier is.

The Mouth of Sauron. Hmm. I thought that he was almost comical in a sense, because where he was surely meant to be leering, he appeared to be offering a toothy, winning smile. His voice... I don't know, it just didn't seem right to me. Not hissy like I imagined it would be. I did love his armor, though, and also that of his horse. I want a helm like his. So, he was cool, but he wasn't "my" Mouth of Sauron.

The Houses of Healing -- sweet, but so short! I'm not sure I liked the song that was sung when Aragorn was taking care of Eowyn, but a couple more viewings will probably warm me up to it.

Gandalf vs. Witch King: a little bit disappointing, since Gandalf definitely got owned.

I liked Aragorn finally using the Palantir, but the title of the scene is "Aragorn Masters the Palantir." It seems like Sauron, in the end, won out by showing Aragorn a vision of the failing Arwen.

The Paths of the Dead were... interesting. I got postively giddy upon hearing Malbeth's prophecy, huzzah! Gimli blowing away the ghosts was funny, but perhaps should have been cut shorter. The cascade of skulls made absolutely no sense to me at first, and I was saying to myself, "What the fork... PJ, you've gone off the deep end." Then Aragorn and Friends emerged from the mountain, coming to the river. It seemed to me that perhaps the Dead were guiding them out, since the ships were fast approaching. Whether that's the intent or not is beyond me, but I think I'll stick with that idea to justify the sudden skull avalanche.

And last but certainly not least, Gothmog. We get to see him walk about a bit in the EE, and he's got this gimpy leg which makes me laugh. Now I can't stop thinking of him as Gimpy Gothmog, which I'm sure is the name the other orcs call him behind his back. He really had a miserable time of it, though. First he got beaten by Eowyn, then hacked apart by Gimli and Aragorn. You know, I was really hoping Eowyn would kill him, just because Aragorn is very sword-happy, as seen with the MoS and such. A little variety would have been nice there.

Despite my criticism I really did love it... but as noted earlier, by Essex, I believe, I don't know where the time went. The forty-something minutes were so spread out, I guess, that it didn't excite me like the other two EEs. Yet it was an amazing film, and I think that much of my criticism will vanish when I watch it a few more times.

[Boromir88]

Encaitare has me thinking of Gothmog. There are times when PJ does some trully wonderful stuff, and I think stands out as a director. For instance:

Eomer finding Eowyn, just the look on Karl Urban's face.

The interactions between Denethor, Boromir, and Faramir. Also, between Pippin/Gandalf, Faramir/Pippin, Boromir/Faramir...etc.

Sam's character in ROTK.

For a personal favorite, I love the connection PJ draws to Isildur and Frodo:


Look at the simularity in their faces. It's moments like this when I sit back, and say wow PJ, that was great.

Then there are just times when PJ sinks back to his C rated gore movie crap...

The meaningless beheading of MoS, and mutilation of Gothmog. There is absolutely no point in these two sequences except to add blood and gore.

[Encaitare]

Heh... glad you enjoyed my Gothmog comments, Boromir. Since he is on my mind as well, I found a quote of yours re. Gothmog which made me laugh... check my sig.

The pictures you posted reminded me of a point I forgot to make in my last post. when Gollum is strangling Frodo, Frodo says, "But you swore! You swore on the precious!" I noticed that when Frodo says "Precious," it sounds extremely Gollum-esque. That may just be because he can't breathe, but it was creepy to me all the same.

[Boromir88]

I noticed your sig after I posted. Thanks, I'm flattered .

Now, you've reminded me of something else, lol . Bilbo's little Gollumish speak in FOTR "It's mine, I found it, it came to me!" "My precious!" I love it.

[Gilthalion]

I rarely have opportunity to post these days, much less to read lengthy threads such as this, but I thought it worth reading and so I hope what I have to mention will be worth posting.

The VOICE OF SARUMAN scene sets up some of the character conflict that we see later in the film.

Gandalf's uncertainty and fear that he has sent Frodo to his doom makes better sense as a spirit of thought from Saruman. This also gives Aragorn more of an opportunity to take leadership.

Theoden's lack of faith in himself is also made keener by the spell of Saruman's voice.

This is a subtle effect that Gandalf warns of in the book, but is rather difficult to show in a movie. The EE of ROTK accomplishes this, though this kind of subtlety seems to have largely gone unnoticed. Kudos to Peter, Fran, and Phillipa for this effort.

[Nurumaiel]

As far as Saruman's death goes, while it slightly bothers me that his death was at the wrong time and place (aside from Orthanc, it was his back, too) merely because it wasn't 'bookish,' that is very nitpicky, and my main disgust is for what takes place after the stabbing. Firstly, the fact that Legolas shoots Grima is very bothersome. He didn't wait for any kind of consent from Gandalf, but notched his arrow and did what was, in my mind, completely not right. Secondly, Saruman's fall onto the spike was sickening, and completely unnecessary. It was necessary for him to be killed, certainly, but was it necessary for him to fall in such a way and then be lowered slowly into the water? Perhaps, as Boromir88 mentioned of the Mouth of Sauron's and Gothmog's deaths, it was merely to add more blood and gore?

By the way, Boromir88, I completely agree with your comment about Karl Urban's acting. Absolutely heart-rending. And speaking of good acting, I was discussing with some family members the new Denethor/Faramir scene, and I honestly think some of the best acting in all three films was in that scene. There can be no doubt cast that Denethor is really and truly going mad, but David Wenham's acting is what caught my attention most. When Denethor has his illusion of Boromir, the expression on Faramir's face is very subtly changed to one of a hope that he dares not let exist. Thank goodness, no mad rushing into his father's arms! But, rather, just a faint expression of disbelief, and a hope that he can hope and then... 'Leave me,' and it is gone. Aside from sending a heat to my eyes, it sent thrills through me.