Beyond the Tolkien Estate

[davem]

I've pointed this out elsewhere, but the Second Ed Sil is copyrighted:

The JRR Tolkien Copyright Trust & CR Tolkien 1977.

& HoME has the same.

The new 50th Anniversary Edition of LotR is copyrighted:

The Trustees of The JRR Tolkien 1967 Settlement.

I don't know whether there's a difference between copyright in an author's name & copyright owned by a 'trust'.

Let's face it, though, there is no-one (& there never will be) with Tolkien's knowledge of Middle earth, its languages, history & peoples and his storytelling abilities. Tolkien's creation was constantly evolving, & was never at any time 'fixed'. How could anyone step into his shoes?

[Lalwendë]

Let's face it, though, there is no-one (& there never will be) with Tolkien's knowledge of Middle earth, its languages, history & peoples and his storytelling abilities. Tolkien's creation was constantly evolving, & was never at any time 'fixed'. How could anyone step into his shoes?

Indeed. The creation of Arda was an entire lifetime's work, and so how could anyone possibly follow that? The very fact that sites such as this exist and thrive is due to the fact that we are not merely discussing a film or a book, but one man's entire lifetime's work.

I'd say a greater danger to Middle-earth -- if in fact it really is a danger -- is the possibility that control of the Estate will fall into the hands of a less fastidious custodian than Christopher following his death.

That's a frightening thought. There is enough controversy as it is, I can't imagine what will happen after that sad event. By way of example, after Plath died her estate passed to the Hughes family, and it caused a huge amount of trouble for scholars as they wished to keep much private - whether this was right or wrong I would not like to say, but argument raged for many years.

[Mithalwen]

I imagine that the difference is that in 67 (I think there are some details in Carpenter) partly for income tax and also (given Tolkien's age at that time) inheritance reasons the trust was set up and large amounts of the papers were handed over to Marquette (sp?) university. However ownership of papers and copyright are not the same thing at all and of course Christopher's copyright of his own work will run for 70 years after his own death regardless. However he may be just as vulnerable to trustees whether or not his own copyright will be included in the main trust or not. I hope a Plath style dispute does not ensue but given that there is already "trouble at mill" I am not hopeful.

[davem]

I suspect the movies have not helped. Certainly the family's position seems to have hardened as far as what they will allow to be published (or re-published). I seem to recall that the family (read 'CT', i suppose) has refused permission for The Tolkien Family Album (a collection of family photos, etc) to be re-printed in part due to the movies & the hype & fuss surrounding them. CT clearly sees his father's work (rightly as far as most of us are concerned) as great literature, & I suspect that seeing them made into 'action movies' - however well done - will not have pleased the old man.

I'm told (by a 'little bird' at the Tolkien Society) that Priscilla is more easy going as far as her father's work is concerned, & wouldn't have so many difficulties as CT. Whether that's true or not I can't say, but CT is incredibly protective. He has a right to be, & personally if he was to get his way permanently - not just for 70 years after his death - I would not have too much of a problem with that. We'll never be able to repay our debt to him.

[Mister Underhill]

Well, just to play devil's advocate, JRRT wrote in letter 131 prior to the publication of LotR:

I would draw some of the great tales in fullness, and leave many only placed in the scheme, and sketched. The cycles should be linked to a majestic whole, and yet leave scope for other minds and hands, wielding paint and music and drama.

Was this an idle wish only? Arguably, sites like this one remain strong in large part due to creative response to Tolkien's works: the movies, love or hate them, have recruited legions of new fans to the Downs who otherwise might have been oblivious of Middle-earth; the RPG section and the fan-fiction boards have kept many members interested who might otherwise have long ago quit the site.

The fact is, Middle-earth is at present a dead world -- rich, wonderful, and extraordinarly detailed, yes; worthy of months or even years of study and discussion, to be sure -- but stagnant. Is there a risk that licensing Middle-earth to other authors might result in a lot of substandard work? Undoubtedly. On the other hand, it might also result in exciting new material, rich new avenues of exploration, undreamt of adventures. The long idle heart of Middle-earth might beat again; new blood, pulsing with life and imagination, might flow to its farthest extremities.

Christopher's strategy -- though it no doubt springs from honorable, even noble intentions -- is, elf-like, to embalm Middle-earth; his father knew that embalming his world was not possible or even, in the end, desirable.

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Mister Underhill

Is there a risk that licensing Middle-earth to other authors might result in a lot of substandard work? Undoubtedly. On the other hand, it might also result in exciting new material, rich new avenues of exploration, undreamt of adventures. The long idle heart of Middle-earth might beat again; new blood, pulsing with life and imagination, might flow to its farthest extremities.

Christopher's strategy -- though it no doubt springs from honorable, even noble intentions -- is, elf-like, to embalm Middle-earth; his father knew that embalming his world was not possible or even, in the end, desirable.

LIkely, Mr. Underhill, the mere act of licensing someone to write a Middle earth tale would not necessarily ensure new life.

If Middle earth is to inspire other authors, as I suspect Tolkien was hoping his mythology would--it won't come from legal agreements but from creative endeavour. And that endeavour won't be necessarily a rigid paint by numbers approach.

[davem]

Originally Posted by Mr Underhill

The fact is, Middle-earth is at present a dead world -- rich, wonderful, and extraordinarly detailed, yes; worthy of months or even years of study and discussion, to be sure -- but stagnant. Is there a risk that licensing Middle-earth to other authors might result in a lot of substandard work? Undoubtedly. On the other hand, it might also result in exciting new material, rich new avenues of exploration, undreamt of adventures. The long idle heart of Middle-earth might beat again; new blood, pulsing with life and imagination, might flow to its farthest extremities.

Christopher's strategy -- though it no doubt springs from honorable, even noble intentions -- is, elf-like, to embalm Middle-earth; his father knew that embalming his world was not possible or even, in the end, desirable.

Sorry, Mr U but I couldn't disagree more. Tolkien was a genius, for one thing. No other writer could produce anything close to his standard. There may be some who understand the 'technicalities' of language & history & others who are his equal in storytelling, but I can't believe that there is any single writer who is equal to him in both things. Why, because such a writer would have to be a comparable genius - & why would someone like that wish to be a 'follower', rather than a 'leader' - no, anyone capable of producing work of the depth & complexity of Tolkien's work would not wish to do it - they would have their own inspiration to drive them onward.

Ther will never be any 'sequels' by other hands, no 'library' of Middle earth to stand alongside the originals, because no artist of equal ability would wish to do it.

[Mister Underhill]

In a sense there already is a "library" of Middle-earth -- it exists here in the RPG section, in the fan-fiction forum, in countless other places across the web where fans have applied fingers to keyboard to create new tales of Middle-earth (all of which are technically in violation of copyright).

I'm merely suggesting that licensing would provide an opportunity for professional writers to try their hand at Middle-earth. It does not necessarily follow that this must be a rigid paint-by-numbers approach.

Tolkien was a genius, no argument there, but he's not the only capable writer ever to have drawn breath. I'm only saying maybe such action would produce worthy new tales of Middle-earth. Maybe. It's possible.

And unless Tolkien's heirs can figure a way to extend their copyright indefinitely, I wager there will be sequels by other writers, though neither you nor I may live to see them. In any case I don't think that works by other hands and minds would diminish the greatness of Tolkien's core works, any more than reams of fan fiction or three flawed movies have.

[Mithalwen]

One of my sale bargains was a copy of the visual companion to ROTK (99p at Smiths if anyone is interested) and I was interested to note that it was published with the "permission but not approval" of the Tolkien Estate.

This raises all sorts of questions about the legal status of the works especially given that all the chars places and things are TM.ed and that the Publisher I think is the same as the original books. It suggests a policy of not stopping stuff necessarily but not liking it.....

It is an interesting case but I don't necessarily think that a franchised authour would have any more standing in my eyes than well written fanfic / RPG that respected the nature of Middle Earth as created by Tolkien.