**The Return of the King Extended Edition**

[Kitanna]

Originally Posted by Nurumaiel

It was necessary for him to be killed, certainly, but was it necessary for him to fall in such a way and then be lowered slowly into the water?

I believe the lowering of Saruman into the water was supposed to support Treebeard's line of "The filth of Saruman is washing away." Still it was a terrible way for him to go.

[Tuor of Gondolin]

As to Legolas shooting Grima and Saruman's death by Grima, this may be an example of PJ's and friends efforts (at times somewhat clumsy, at others
more successful) of conflating characters and events from the book into the
movies. Legolas is perhaps a nod to Grima's being shot by hobbits after killing
Saruman (although they should have had Gandalf trying to stop Legolas to
make it more "true" to the book, as Frodo regretted the killing of Grima).
Similarly, perhaps their having Gandalf assault Denethor was an effort to
acknowledge Beregond's battling Denethor's servants to save Faramir?

[obloquy]

Gandalf did not fear the Witch-King. It's silly that he did in the movies, but it bypasses some lore that they could not have included and thus, I guess, is understandable.

I really liked the Mouth of Sauron, too. Pretty wicked. I didn't much care for his inconsequential dispatching, however.

[Essex]

as an aside, did anyone hear gimli's voice change back to John rhys davies's real more 'posher' accent when he says 'I guess that concludes negotiations'. very strange.

I've mentioned this earlier, but for me the Mouth of Sauron was superb. And to add to this, in the film this was not a parley. The MoS did not come to offer the men of the West a deal, he came to scoff at their apparent weakness. So Aragorn was dispatching an enemy and not in conflict with any codes of war.

Having Aragorn cut off the MoS's head was used in the EE to give a reason for Sauron's eye to be moved away from the plains of Gorgoroth and Frodo and Sam.

[obloquy]

I don't disagree with Aragorn's action, I just think it made the Mouth come across as all talk. HARHARHAR

It undermines the badassitude of the rest of the scene leading up to it.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by obloquy

It undermines the badassitude of the rest of the scene leading up to it.

Spot on! I knew that there was something about Aragorn's decapitation of the Mouth of Sauron that irked me, but I couldn't quite put my finger on it. But you have pinpointed it precisely there. What is the point of building up this marvellously loathsome character and have him mercilessly gloat and taunt Aragorn et al, only to have him despatched by Aragorn without a by or a leave? It does rather undermine the whole point of his characterisation (which I thought was great). It would have been much more powerful to have the Mouth of Sauron ride off leaving them despondent. There are numerous other points at which Sauron's eye could have been diverted (as, for example, in the cinema release).

[alatar]

Originally Posted by obloquy

Gandalf did not fear the Witch-King. It's silly that he did in the movies, but it bypasses some lore that they could not have included and thus, I guess, is understandable.
.

I think that I could have accepted the staff breaking/prone wizard more easily if Gandalf would have simply 'smiled' just before the horns started blowing. It would have been like saying to the WK that while you're up here, the tides of battle are about to turn.

[Numenorean]

At last I finally watched the RoTK EE as part of a back-to-back trilogy marathon, then watched it again this morning. Lots of really good comments and thoughts on this thread both for and against, firstly Saruman:
Kransha

Saruman's voice was perfectly melodious and sinister

I agree, the way he just rolled into the 'Théoden King...' speech was effortlessly rich and undulating, oozing with a resonant vocal quality that only someone as talented (and familiar with the text) as Christopher Lee could properly convey. Great addition to the film that really should've made the cinema edit.
I loved the short but excellent added scenes that touched upon the deeper histories and lore of Tolkiens legends, the crossroads with the Kings head was very poignant, and as ElanorGamgee has already pointed out

Gandalf’s brief history lesson concerning Númenor, including allusions to the fall of the Númenórians and their culture of death as described in The Silmarillion.

was also vocally and visually marvellous.
The extra sequences at Pelennor Fields were great as far as they went. Some measure of justice was done to Gimlis axe-wielding and fighting techniques, I found the brief shots of him at Pelennor were greatly improved from the slapdash and comedic way he fought in TTT. Éowyn and Merrys extra scenes were fantastic, the hardihood of Hobbits and Women - particuarly in light of Éomers derogatory comments at Dunharrow - was much needed, and Éowyn/Dernhelms bravery and skill on the field was a sight to behold!
The aftermath of the battle was far more grimly realistic, I thought that Pip searching till dusk for Merry was highly emotive, and as Encaitare said

Éomer finding Éowyn on the battlefield was short but perfect

On first viewing I found the whole Aragorn/Sauron palantir confrontation a bit puzzling and unsettling - especially with the evenstar shattering like that. On second viewing it made a bit more speculative sense in that Aragorn seemingly goads Sauron with Narsil/Andúril, thus Sauron in turn taunts Aragorn into uncertainty with images of mortality (that old Númenorean weakness!) and how it will one day claim even Arwen, leastways thats how I tried to fathom it.
The Mouth of Sauron was a fiendishly worthy addition, his loathsome mocking of Gandalf with the line..."Old Greybeard..." was brilliantly foul. The MoS came over as being so arrogant and abhorrently unctuous, yet desperate as he tried to discern if Gandalf had an ace up his sleeve. This was creepily revealed by the way in which he zeroed in on anything the Hobbits said immediately after he tossed them Frodos mithril shirt. His sudden decapitation at the hand of Aragorn was unexpected, and within the subtle context of the book it would indeed have been dishonourable, yet within the context of the film I thought it was acceptable - if somewhat fell, Gandalf himself says moments before that "We do not come treat with Sauron..." Therefore I agree with what Essex has already stated,

Aragorn was dispatching an enemy and not in conflict with any codes of war

Overall the film (and the previous two) is massively entertaining and visually stunning, most of the shots of the famous Middle Earthian landmarks leapt straight from the pages and were magnificent to behold. The Grey Havens were especially beautiful and melancholic, exactly how I imagined them to look and feel.
Given the massive scale of the trilogy it could have been a total and utter disaster, PJ had to walk a fine and unforgiving line that not many others would have even attempted, and love of the project is evident in everyone who worked on it. Sure it would have been so great to have seen Bombadil, The Wight, Glorfindel, Erkenbrand, Imrahil, Halbarad, Elronds sons and the others who did not make the cut, and in a perfect world we would all be eagerly awaiting the release of an epic series of Silmarillion movies .
As it is I am mightily impressed by the ambition, scope and quality of the extended edition trilogy, and am thankful we have got what we have.

[Essex]

Mr 'Defend the Movies till I die' makes a U turn at last......

I was dissapointed in a few things from the EE:

No end to the Fellowship's later years as documented in the Tale of the Years. I was hoping something would turn up as the director's commentaries in the fotr EE say that Galadriel's voiceover would 'bookend' the movies. I do note, however, on the first extra DVD some quick shots of legolas and gimli after the War of the Ring, and at least they filmed SOME shots like this. 10th or 20th anniversarry edition perhaps? you never know..................

No scene with Pippin bringing in Merry to Minas Tirith and Gandalf's line about the hobbit should have been brought into the city with great honour. And eowyn's line to eomer that he should make merry a knight of the riddermark. These scenes always bring a tear to my eye. He could have least got the 'Are you going to bury me?' line in! Ah well........

[Durelin]

One quick word on the Mouth of Sauron:

He was the first thing to creep me out in those films, so he was absolutely perfect in my mind. Maybe I'm just not a perfectionist when it comes to movies, but...

Also, the House of Healings scene between Faramir and Eowyn was almost exactly as I imagined it, though it was quite quite short...

And I think we can all agree that the movie wasn't anywhere near long enough...