LotR -- Book 3 - Chapter 04 - Treebeard

[Aldarion Elf-Friend]

Since I sort of kicked off this discussion of the Ents vs. Tom Bombadill w/respect to age (at least in this thread), I thought I would add some rambling, barely coherent thoughts to the conversation. I think that the apparent contradiction between Treebeard and Tom both being the oldest living thing that walks the earth might simply be semantic. Let's first look at Gandalf's quote concerning Treebeard:

"The little that I know of his long slow story would make a tale for which we have no time now. Treebeard is Fangorn, the guardian of the forest; he is the oldest of the Ents, the oldest living thing that still walks beneath the Sun upon this Middle-earth."

Now, here is what Tom says about himself:

"Who are you, Master;" [Frodo] asked.

"Eh, what?" said Tom sitting up, and his eyes glinting in the gloom. "Don't you know my name yet? That's the only answer. Tell me, who are you, alone, yourself and nameless? But you are young and I am old. Eldest, that's what I am. Mark my words, my friends: Tom was here before the river and the trees; Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn."

It is quite clear from Tom's quote that he pre-existed the ents - "Tom remembers ... the first acorn." But Gandalf says that Treebeard is "the oldest living thing that still walks beneath the sun..."

So, how do we balance these two authorities? I believe that the answer lies not in the authority of the respective sources, but in the nature of Tom Bombadill, himself. I think this is similar to the passage in the Gospels when the Saducees ask Jesus concerning the theortical woman with 8 successive husbands to whom she would be married in the afterlife, we don't understand the very nature the of question we are asking. (Matt 22:23-33)

One more quote. This is from Chapter 2 of the Silmarillion, Of Aule and Yavanna:

"When the Children awake, then the thought of Yavanna will awake also, and it will summon spirits from afar, and they will go among the kelvar and the olvar, and some will dwell therein..."

When it comes right down to it, all of the Ainur are essentially the same age, and all pre-exist the world, much more the Ents. By that definition, any creature in Middle Earth inhabited by a Maiar spirit (Istari, Ents, certain Eagles, Sauron, etc.) is the same age. The only difference is when they entered the limits of physical form in ME. The Eagles and Ents were inhabited at the same time as the awakening of the Elves. It is also apparent that the four major spirit/flesh beings (Sauron and the Istari, not including the two that disappeared into the East) are the only ones that retain a great portion of their pre-incarnate knowledge.

So, "The Oldest Living Thing that still walks beneath the sun" implies to me that it is very likely that all the Elves that awoke next to the waters of Cuivienen have passed to the Halls of Mandos, but Treebeard was also inhabited at that moment of awakening. So, how do we deal with the stated fact that Tom was there "before the first acorn?"

I believe that these two statements can only be reconciled if we accept that Tom Bombadill is something other than Valar or Maiar (no, not Eru Iluvatar). It has been postulated elsewhere that Tom (and his partner, Goldberry) is a being of the spirit of the earth, and his essence is that of the earth. What I'm saying is that Tom is not alive in the sense that Elves, Ents and even Istari are alive. He and Goldberry exist as an extension of the being of the earth, and are simply an animation of the forces that move the world, itself. They don't live, per se, they simply are, and have been since "before the first acorn".

Therefor, Tom is eldest, and Treebeard is oldest.

Oh, and Balrogs have wings...