Unnamed character in the extended 'Return of the King'? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Mithalwen · 01-07-2005, 08:41 AM

I have always wondered what it was about Imrahil which made Legolas know he had Elvish blood .... maybe he had pointy ears .... or a radiant complexion or maybe his feet didn't quite reach the ground.... there is a bit more about the line of Dol Amroth in HoME and UT but not as much as I would like .... Imrahil was one of my favourites ... and he makes such an excellent foil for Denethor in the books ...

narfforc · 01-07-2005, 09:10 AM

The Saucepan Man is correct, it was the will of Eru that only the offspring of Earendil and Elwing should be given the choice. In the case of Idril and Tuor, It was said that he was the only mortal to be numbered among The Eldar. and in the case of Arwen and Aragorn, she became mortal, therefore so was Eldarion. What became of Mithrellas, who dissapeared after giving birth to another child after Galador. Whether she was forced to choose as Arwen and Luthien had, Tolkien does not say . There are only a few possibilities, she either caught a ship to the undying lands, or she was rejected. If she was rejected, that meant she had been accounted amonst the Edain and would eventually die a mortal, if that were true, then so was the offspring, they would be of the race of Man, not halfelven. If she had not tried to catch a ship, and left her life in some kind of limbo, she may well be wandering Middle-Earth still along with Maglor, though this is unlikely.

NOMOREIHERE

**The Saucepan Man** · 01-07-2005, 10:47 AM

Being a pure-blood Elf, Mithrellas had an automatic right to enter Valinor. She could not have been rejected. It doesn't, of course, follow that she did take a ship West ...

narfforc · 01-07-2005, 12:30 PM

HI Saucepan Man, If by her association with a mortal, Eru had decreed that she also was mortal, as in the case of Luthien and Arwen, then she would not have been allowed in. I know they both had to renounce themselves, but that was to be with the ones they loved, so it stands to reason that the same rules would apply to any of the elves. If Luthien who was also part Maiar could not go back, then why would they allow Mithrellas.

**The Saucepan Man** · 01-08-2005, 11:01 AM

But Luthien requested mortality and Arwen chose it. They were not prevented from entering the Blessed Realm against their will since they knew the consequences of their choice. Moreover, I would speculate that Arwen might, had a ship been available to take her, have been permitted entry following Aragron's death, although being mortal she would have died there like Frodo, Bilbo and Sam.

Mithrellas would not have been denied entry against her will although, had she made the same request as Luthien, it might conceivably have been granted.

Of course, by the will of Eru, I suppose anything is possible ...

narfforc · 01-09-2005, 02:20 PM

Hi Saucepan Man, I was refering to Luthien and Arwen after they had made their choice, by their choice they are barred. No mortal may set foot in the Undying Lands against the will of Eru, even Frodo, Bilbo and Sam are only allowed a far as Tol Erresea, but you are right, for we do not know if Eru permitted Mithrellas in or not. It is one of those nice loose ends that Tolkien left dangling, that allows us to
question

Assasin · 01-25-2005, 05:21 PM

I thought The Mouth of Sauron was so freaky but so cool! I love the way he kind of does that smile/grimace thing. He has bad gingavitis.

01-07-2005, 08:41 AM	#1
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,461	I have always wondered what it was about Imrahil which made Legolas know he had Elvish blood .... maybe he had pointy ears .... or a radiant complexion or maybe his feet didn't quite reach the ground.... there is a bit more about the line of Dol Amroth in HoME and UT but not as much as I would like .... Imrahil was one of my favourites ... and he makes such an excellent foil for Denethor in the books ... __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

01-07-2005, 09:10 AM	#2
narfforc Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Muddy-earth Posts: 1,297	The Saucepan Man is correct, it was the will of Eru that only the offspring of Earendil and Elwing should be given the choice. In the case of Idril and Tuor, It was said that he was the only mortal to be numbered among The Eldar. and in the case of Arwen and Aragorn, she became mortal, therefore so was Eldarion. What became of Mithrellas, who dissapeared after giving birth to another child after Galador. Whether she was forced to choose as Arwen and Luthien had, Tolkien does not say . There are only a few possibilities, she either caught a ship to the undying lands, or she was rejected. If she was rejected, that meant she had been accounted amonst the Edain and would eventually die a mortal, if that were true, then so was the offspring, they would be of the race of Man, not halfelven. If she had not tried to catch a ship, and left her life in some kind of limbo, she may well be wandering Middle-Earth still along with Maglor, though this is unlikely. NOMOREIHERE Last edited by narfforc; 01-07-2005 at 09:14 AM.

01-07-2005, 10:47 AM	#3
The Saucepan Man Corpus Cacophonous Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A green and pleasant land Posts: 8,390	Being a pure-blood Elf, Mithrellas had an automatic right to enter Valinor. She could not have been rejected. It doesn't, of course, follow that she did take a ship West ... __________________ Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind!

01-08-2005, 11:01 AM	#5
The Saucepan Man Corpus Cacophonous Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A green and pleasant land Posts: 8,390	But Luthien requested mortality and Arwen chose it. They were not prevented from entering the Blessed Realm against their will since they knew the consequences of their choice. Moreover, I would speculate that Arwen might, had a ship been available to take her, have been permitted entry following Aragron's death, although being mortal she would have died there like Frodo, Bilbo and Sam. Mithrellas would not have been denied entry against her will although, had she made the same request as Luthien, it might conceivably have been granted. Of course, by the will of Eru, I suppose anything is possible ... __________________ Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind!

01-25-2005, 05:21 PM	#7
Assasin Wight Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: In a desert. Posts: 142	I thought The Mouth of Sauron was so freaky but so cool! I love the way he kind of does that smile/grimace thing. He has bad gingavitis. __________________ Death is as light as a feather, duty is as heavy as a mountain.

01-07-2005, 12:30 PM	#4
narfforc Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Muddy-earth Posts: 1,297	HI Saucepan Man, If by her association with a mortal, Eru had decreed that she also was mortal, as in the case of Luthien and Arwen, then she would not have been allowed in. I know they both had to renounce themselves, but that was to be with the ones they loved, so it stands to reason that the same rules would apply to any of the elves. If Luthien who was also part Maiar could not go back, then why would they allow Mithrellas.

01-09-2005, 02:20 PM	#6
narfforc Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Muddy-earth Posts: 1,297	Hi Saucepan Man, I was refering to Luthien and Arwen after they had made their choice, by their choice they are barred. No mortal may set foot in the Undying Lands against the will of Eru, even Frodo, Bilbo and Sam are only allowed a far as Tol Erresea, but you are right, for we do not know if Eru permitted Mithrellas in or not. It is one of those nice loose ends that Tolkien left dangling, that allows us to question