Tolkien's 'Machine' - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

davem · 12-05-2002, 08:53 AM

I can see that in the context of LotR, the opposition to the machine is the pre-industrial shire - which by the way is very close to the rural Oxfordshire described in Lark Rise to Candleford by Flora Thompson, if anyone hasn't read that. It really enhanced my experience of the Shire.
But you could also put forward a pre-enlightenment/post enlightenment scenario, maybe.
For me it comes down to how one relates to/interacts with the world. Maybe even bringing in the Taoist concepts of the Uncarved Block as against the 10,000 things. A Holistic worldview (art/dreaming) in opposition to a fragmented, mechanistic one. Technology/ machinery in itself is not the issue, as you say. Maybe it comes down to seeing everything as an aspect of a (living?) integrated WHOLE, or just seeing the world as a mass of unrelated 'bits' - an 'assets & obstacles' view - ie everyone & everything is either an asset - something to be exploited, or an obstacle - something to be removed. The Elves are one with Arda, in a way that Men can never be. Men's destiny lies beyond Arda. Men are prone to 'machine' thinking, Elves really aren't. How far can we push this - Elves - Art/holistic relationships, Men - Mechanism?

12-05-2002, 08:53 AM	#9
davem Illustrious Ulair Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties Posts: 4,240	I can see that in the context of LotR, the opposition to the machine is the pre-industrial shire - which by the way is very close to the rural Oxfordshire described in Lark Rise to Candleford by Flora Thompson, if anyone hasn't read that. It really enhanced my experience of the Shire. But you could also put forward a pre-enlightenment/post enlightenment scenario, maybe. For me it comes down to how one relates to/interacts with the world. Maybe even bringing in the Taoist concepts of the Uncarved Block as against the 10,000 things. A Holistic worldview (art/dreaming) in opposition to a fragmented, mechanistic one. Technology/ machinery in itself is not the issue, as you say. Maybe it comes down to seeing everything as an aspect of a (living?) integrated WHOLE, or just seeing the world as a mass of unrelated 'bits' - an 'assets & obstacles' view - ie everyone & everything is either an asset - something to be exploited, or an obstacle - something to be removed. The Elves are one with Arda, in a way that Men can never be. Men's destiny lies beyond Arda. Men are prone to 'machine' thinking, Elves really aren't. How far can we push this - Elves - Art/holistic relationships, Men - Mechanism? __________________ “Everything was an object. If you killed a dwarf you could use it as a weapon – it was no different to other large heavy objects."